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Ltvscout
01-12-2006, 07:30 AM
Estes has discontinued the C11-5, leaving the C11-3 as the only C11 still being produced.

The Estes B6-0 has NOT been discontinued.

Unfortunately, Quest has discontinued the B6-0 and the B6-2.

Nuke Rocketeer
01-12-2006, 08:31 AM
Oh Lordy!!! If this keeps up, what are we gonna do for multi staging? The choices for BP engines keeps getting narrower every year.

Joe W

Ltvscout
01-12-2006, 08:35 AM
Oh Lordy!!! If this keeps up, what are we gonna do for multi staging? The choices for BP engines keeps getting narrower every year.
I guess we'll have to rely on Semroc to fill the void as we do on everything else! ;)

Rocketaholic
01-12-2006, 08:44 AM
That is too bad. I hope they kepp what they do have still going though.

CPMcGraw
01-12-2006, 10:45 AM
Estes has discontinued the C11-5, leaving the C11-3 as the only C11 still being produced.

The Estes B6-0 has NOT been discontinued.

Unfortunately, Quest has discontinued the B6-0 and the B6-2.

Scott,

I take it by your comment that the C11-0 is already OOP? If you've mentioned it before, I've forgotten...

ghrocketman
01-12-2006, 11:27 AM
The C11-0 was discontinued I believe shortly after the C11-7 (it may have been shortly before)

This discontinuing of BP motors STINKS !
We need MORE BP motors (at least more interesting ones) than what we have now not less !
I would not even mind discontinuing the B6-0 if they would bring back something more useful such as the A8-0 (for small fields) or B14-0 (for load lifting).

I would not have a problem with them discontiuing the whole C11 line; the pricing is JUST PLAIN IGNORANT !
These should be no more than a few pennies more than a C6 due to a small additional amount of clay and cardboard; the proellant could not cost more as a BP supposed 10ns (yeah right) engine would use roughly the same amount of BP whether 13, 18, 24, or 29mm !

The reason they gave for discontinuing the C11-0 (not capable of reliably igniting the upper stage motor due to small amount of propellant) is pure rubbish; if this was the case, 1/2A6-0s and A8-0's would have never worked. I used several C11-0s and NEVER had a failure to stage, even to smaller 18mm motors !
Most likely it was poor rocket prep (as Buford says to Moose "Duhhhh...jest shove it in there it'll doo") by inexperienced rocketeers; I'll admit that a C11 allows less margin of prep error than a D12-0

The stupidest decision EVER by Estes in the motor dept. was discontinuing the C5-3 (yeah I know lots will argue it was the B14). The C6-3 is an absolute TURD compared to the C5-3; the C6 has less burn time and load lifting capability. Most rockets that can use either of the two will fly about 20% higher on a C5.
The explanation of a bad production run with lots of CATOs is not a reason to stop production of a motor that was produced for several years....it is however a reason for fixing/investigating the problem...it is called root-cause analysis.
Discontinuing the C5 beacause of one bad production run makes about as much sense as Ford or GM dicontinuing a particular model of automobile beacuse they had a 3 day long production flaw.
They used STOOPYD-illogic when they did this !
I would have liked to have seen a C5-5 even if it would have required a 1/2" (BIG FREAKIN DEAL) longer case.

If the thrust/time curve of the C11-3 was the same as the C5-3 along with the SAME cost as the C5-3, I think many more would be sold. I can fly 24mm RMS full 20ns composite D/40 n-sec E engines for much less $$ per n-sec than these C11 turds.

The main reason why I got my RMS 24 is that I find the amount of available BP motor selections to be dismally inadequate.

Nuke Rocketeer
01-12-2006, 12:26 PM
OH BOY!!!! Another dead horse topic to beat to death again!

I also vote for the C5-0, a much better booster stage than the C6-0, but the idiots at Estes chose to not pick up production of this engine after they put Centuri into the grave. The discontinuation of the A8-0, A3-0, and the A10-0 was also another mistake.

I wish I had that dead horse emoticon......maybe the moderator can include it in the choices, considering how many times we tend to do this!!! :rolleyes:

ghrocketman
01-12-2006, 05:37 PM
I'm a gonna keep beatin' that dead horse until someone listens and starts producing some decent BP motors instead of allowing their "dung-for-brains" business planning teams decide the products that stay/go.

tbzep
01-12-2006, 05:41 PM
I agree in principal. I would love to have the full line of motors back, even the 18mm shorts. :)

However, I don't think it was a stupid move on Estes' part. Most of the discontinued motors didn't sell very well and they didn't make enough profit margin on them. The company is a "for profit" organization and it has been a long time since it has been run by a true rocketry fan who is willing to sacrifice a little of his profit margin for the benefit of the hobby as a whole (Vern Estes). Estes may someday end up only manufacturing motors that go with their RTF Walmart plastic bubble rockets if that is what makes them the highest profit margin. :(

ghrocketman
01-12-2006, 05:51 PM
I could buy the arguement that they did not sell well for all but the C5-3 and B14 series.
They stopped those just because they were more "labor intensive" (boo-freakin'-hoo) not because they did not sell.
We need core-burning BP motors, period.
I might jump on the Quest bandwagon if they would actually offer something that Estes does NOT !
The B14 was replaced with the B8 which was not bad, but was soon discontinued too.

There is NO legitimate reason that benefits rocketeers to continue to supply the C6-3 instead of the C5-3, PERIOD !

I don't buy into the "not enough profit margin" GUFF either for at least the C5 and B14.
If something turns ANY profit and sells, it is generating positive income.
Now if an item generates ZERO profit or a loss, I can see logic in it's cancellation.

dwmzmm
01-12-2006, 06:32 PM
I could buy the arguement that they did not sell well for all but the C5-3 and B14 series.
They stopped those just because they were more "labor intensive" (boo-freakin'-hoo) not because they did not sell.
We need core-burning BP motors, period.
I might jump on the Quest bandwagon if they would actually offer something that Estes does NOT !
The B14 was replaced with the B8 which was not bad, but was soon discontinued too.

There is NO legitimate reason that benefits rocketeers to continue to supply the C6-3 instead of the C5-3, PERIOD !

I don't buy into the "not enough profit margin" GUFF either for at least the C5 and B14.
If something turns ANY profit and sells, it is generating positive income.
Now if an item generates ZERO profit or a loss, I can see logic in it's cancellation.

The C5 & B14 have been on my "must have" list ever since I returned to the hobby a couple
of years ago. I know those motors will get plenty of business from me!

ghrocketman
01-12-2006, 06:45 PM
I just snagged some new old stock sealed diamond-tube B14-0's (3 paks), 2 sealed blister paks of B8-7's, 1 pak B8-0's, and 2 diamond paks of A8-0s for a really reasonable price.
Also just came into 3 fresh paks of C5-3's.

I fully intend to fly them, sparingly over time.
I know they are no longer certified, but I fly on my own property so that sorta does not apply.
I fired several B14's this year dating back to 1967 or so.
They all worked perfectly without a single CATO because they were stored properly.

Quite frankly I have (and ALWAYS have had) a major beef with the NAR certification (actually decertification) process....if a motor is certified when manufactured it should REMAIN certified until FIRED.
Just because a manufacturer chooses to not continue making something has absolutely ZERO bearing on the certification when the motor was made.

tbzep
01-12-2006, 07:23 PM
They stopped those just because they were more "labor intensive" (boo-freakin'-hoo) not because they did not sell..

They did sell pretty well, but they likely still didn't have a good profit margin because they cost more to make with that extra labor. I don't remember if they were more dangerous to make or not, but if they were, that would become an issue also.

Don't get me wrong, I really want to see a wide variety of motors too, even though there is a motor or two that I may never need.

CPMcGraw
01-12-2006, 10:31 PM
I agree in principal. I would love to have the full line of motors back, even the 18mm shorts. :)

However, I don't think it was a stupid move on Estes' part. Most of the discontinued motors didn't sell very well and they didn't make enough profit margin on them. The company is a "for profit" organization and it has been a long time since it has been run by a true rocketry fan who is willing to sacrifice a little of his profit margin for the benefit of the hobby as a whole (Vern Estes). Estes may someday end up only manufacturing motors that go with their RTF Walmart plastic bubble rockets if that is what makes them the highest profit margin. :(

The powers-that-be at Estes should still know Basic Economics 201 -- the Gillette and Schick business plan. Model rocketry is the same as shaving razors. You make your bread-and-butter from the motors; you sell the kits to create a need for the motors. Estes management seems to have forgotten that last part...

Nuke Rocketeer
01-13-2006, 07:17 AM
Another concern of mine is that not only will the weenies that run Estes continue to make fewer and fewer types of engines, but that they will outsource production overseas (probably to China). Then we will start to really see quality problems. I was really disturbed when Quest outsourced to Germany. When they introduced the micromaxx line, I had great hopes that they would be bringing out a B14/B8/C5 type, but that never happened.

Joe W

Green Dragon
01-13-2006, 08:59 AM
Another concern of mine is that not only will the weenies that run Estes continue to make fewer and fewer types of engines, but that they will outsource production overseas (probably to China). Then we will start to really see quality problems. I was really disturbed when Quest outsourced to Germany. When they introduced the micromaxx line, I had great hopes that they would be bringing out a B14/B8/C5 type, but that never happened.

Joe W

Actually both myself and phred have been trying to get some motors already in production in China with no results.
Apparently going to be hard to import (anyone in the know on how to get em inported, or can direct me to someone, please drop me a line)

they have a nice assortment,too ,including a 10.5mm A and a D already

( will ahve to hunt up the exact details, don;t have the link right here now )

~ AL

Nuke Rocketeer
01-13-2006, 09:18 AM
This is a link to a Chinese rocket company I found one day last year. When I first looked at it, there was an English website, but now everything is in Chinese. I remember they had 18mm A/B/C /D engines.

http://zthj.com/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/index.html

ghrocketman
01-13-2006, 09:50 AM
I'm really surprised it is hard to import model rocket motors from China given the fact of all the Chinese Fireworks that are imported into the USA literally on a DAILY basis.
The main component of each is basically black powder.
I can remember when it was actually MUCH harder to get any sort of worthwhile fireworks compared to obtaining model rocket motors...now the exact opposite is true in my area of the USA...much easier to get a wide variety of fireworks than model rocket motors.
I wonder if they could be imported actually as fireworks then have them reclassified and certified by NAR ?
Maybe some sort of partnership arrangement with an existing (Shelton, Phantom, etc)fireworks importer ?
An 18mm BP small D like the old Cox D8 would be really great and considerably cheaper than anything offered in the RMS 18mm line.
A high thrust 18mm B or C would be a welcome addition as well.

stefanj
01-13-2006, 12:03 PM
I don't buy into the "not enough profit margin" GUFF either for at least the C5 and B14.
If something turns ANY profit and sells, it is generating positive income.
Now if an item generates ZERO profit or a loss, I can see logic in it's cancellation.

Estes is a business. They sell things that will reliably make them money. They don't want to have to deal with stuff that doesn't sell quickly, or gets returned, or is difficult to sell.

The vast majority of thier business is through mass-market places that have limited space for kits and motors. The motors that Wal-Mart carries is determined by the kits they sell.

If Estes is being unreasonable, it is in not welcoming special orders. They could probably make some money selling lots of "rare" motor types to someone willing to front the money.

Don't count on these special lots being cheap, however!

Doug Sams
01-13-2006, 01:51 PM
The C5 & B14 have been on my "must have" list ever since I returned to the hobby a couple of years ago. I know those motors will get plenty of business from me! Guys & Gals,
We rocketeers gotta step up to the plate. While I lament not having the C5 and B14, I'm more frustrated with the loss of the C11-0. It was the near-perfect replacement for the B14-0 and C5-0S. The B14's and C5 booster all disappeared when I didn't care, but dangit, the C11's are going away right under our noses, while we're on watch!

And I'm afraid we BARs are partly to blame. We were too slow in warming up to it. If all of us had built Farsides or Farside-X's with 24mm 1st stages or built 24mm 2-stagers or any of a dozen other configurations, they all could have been perfect vehicles for the C11-0.

The C11-0 is not an exact replacement for those older motors and thus you can't plug it into 18mm booster stages, but heck, I know in my case, I'm constantly building new stuff and thus can readily cook up something special for a new motor. Alas, while I've burned a few C11-0's, I realize in hindsight, it took me a while to finally get the new birds on the range, and had only gotten a few flights in when the C11-7 and C11-0 discontinuation rumors first hit over a year ago.

Fortunately, I have a good stash of C11-0's and C11-7's, but I still hate to see them missing from the stores. Hopefully, Estes is cooking up something different to try out. Fred Shecter suggested a high thrust D on another forum (I think). Sounds like a plan. And if it does come out, we all gotta step up, buy some, fly 'em and talk 'em up to everybody else lest they should also go OOP too soon.

Doug
Trying not to screw up the current good ol' days....

Doug Sams
01-13-2006, 01:52 PM
I just snagged some new old stock sealed diamond-tube B14-0's (3 paks), 2 sealed blister paks of B8-7's, 1 pak B8-0's, and 2 diamond paks of A8-0s for a really reasonable price. Also just came into 3 fresh paks of C5-3's.

I fully intend to fly them, sparingly over time..Sounds like an excellent plan to me. I have a stash I've put together since BAR'ing in 99, and it includes some MPC motors, some Estes shorties, an FSI E booster, some AVI 18mm D's and a few other things. I hope to fly them all eventually.

Doug

ghrocketman
01-13-2006, 01:57 PM
Many of the motors that we as REAL model rocketeers (not impulse/add some junk in the cart buyers) want would sell, provided it is marketed through the right channels; HOBBY SHOPS !

I question how much money Estes makes on engines that they sell to Wal-Mart, Meijer, and other ridiculously large chains that carry a little of everything, but not much of anything (including knowledge/intelligence of those selling the product). These stores around me sell engines for around 3.99 to 4.99 per pak vs. about 6.99 at the hobby shops.
They invariably carry ONLY the following engines: A10-PT (useless), A8-3, B6-4, and C6-5...every once in a while C6-7's may show up but I'm sure it is a mis-order. Most hobby shops carry the full line.
I just wish Aerotech would get into mass-production of reasonable-cost small motors...now there is a company that sells REAL variety (it was sad to lose the 18mm RMS baby "E" though)
I bet they could bury Estes if they wanted to and still make money.

I'm pretty sure that Estes makes more profit per unit on those sold to hobby shops than the big box stores. Their marketing focus needs to be directed BACK WHERE IT BELONGS; to the HOBBY (not junk-toy) market, as it was in the 60's/70's/ and even most of the 80's instead of toward stores that carry everything from celery to lawn mowers.
Estes had a somewhat downward (but slow) slide from the point that Vern sold the company, but what has happened after around 1985 is downright shameful. Other than engines the only items I have purchased from Estes in the last 18 years has been the Big Daddy, Saturn V, and the Oracle....everything else has been Semroc/Thrustline/PDR/Aerotech/LOC/Moldin Oldies/Apogee/Neubauer.
If they actually reintroduce the K-29 as the 1229 (which i highly doubt as Semroc is soon to clone it for $45.00) as is rumored I may buy one to collect.

By the way, I have some of those long 18mm AVI "D" engines too.

Doug Sams
01-13-2006, 02:07 PM
OH BOY!!!! Another dead horse topic to beat to death again!

I also vote for the C5-0, a much better booster stage than the C6-0, but the idiots at Estes chose to not pick up production of this engine after they put Centuri into the grave. The discontinuation of the A8-0, A3-0, and the A10-0 was also another mistake.

I wish I had that dead horse emoticon......maybe the moderator can include it in the choices, considering how many times we tend to do this!!! :rolleyes:Yeahbut...how many stagers have you put up this year? How many boosters did you burn? If we don't use 'em, Estes won't make 'em.

As for your choices, I think the C11-0 was even better still than the C5-0, but we let that one get away.

As for the A8-0 and A3-0T, I can understand Estes not maintaining 3 different A-impulse boosters. In fact, if it was my call, I'd get rid of all 18mm A & under motors and only do them in 13mm. Any 13mm motor can be flown an 18mm mount, so there's really no loss of flexibility. In fact, there's a gain. Estes could reduce their total A & under variety but actually increase the 13mm options. They could ship one unused 18mm case in each 13mm pack to be used as an adaptor.

The new 13mm A offering would be: A3-5T, A10-3T & A10-0T. These would replace the A8-5, A8-3 and A3-4T. The 1/2A offering would be 1/2A3-4T and 1/2A3-2T (status quo) with the loss of the 1/2A6-2. They would go from the current 6 types to 5, but we would get a long delay 13mm A and an A booster. How's that?

Doug

Doug Sams
01-13-2006, 02:24 PM
I would not have a problem with them discontiuing the whole C11 line; the pricing is JUST PLAIN IGNORANT ! Yeah, that was a problem. There was a 1-2 dollar premium to get the same impulse in a different form factor. OTOH, I once said I'd be willing to pay extra for exotic motors (eg, B14-0's) so I ponied up and have bought quite a few packs of C11's. I hate to see them go. I've flown more stagers than I can count using them. I have three upscale Midgets (1.4x, 1.6x, 1.76x), an upscale Apogee2 (2x) , my Tuber, and my Comanche-3 which have all been launched with the C11 booster. I'm gonna miss it.

Doug

Nuke Rocketeer
01-13-2006, 02:39 PM
Yeahbut...how many stagers have you put up this year? How many boosters did you burn? If we don't use 'em, Estes won't make 'em.

As for your choices, I think the C11-0 was even better still than the C5-0, but we let that one get away.

As for the A8-0 and A3-0T, I can understand Estes not maintaining 3 different A-impulse boosters. In fact, if it was my call, I'd get rid of all 18mm A & under motors and only do them in 13mm. Any 13mm motor can be flown an 18mm mount, so there's really no loss of flexibility. In fact, there's a gain. Estes could reduce their total A & under variety but actually increase the 13mm options. They could ship one unused 18mm case in each 13mm pack to be used as an adaptor.

The new 13mm A offering would be: A3-5T, A10-3T & A10-0T. These would replace the A8-5, A8-3 and A3-4T. The 1/2A offering would be 1/2A3-4T and 1/2A3-2T (status quo) with the loss of the 1/2A6-2. They would go from the current 6 types to 5, but we would get a long delay 13mm A and an A booster. How's that?

Doug

I've flow staged rockets more times than I can remember last year. This year I have only done single stage rockets for #4 son's science fair project. The guys at PSC can verify how much I launched last summer and fall...right John???

Joe W

Bob Thomas
01-13-2006, 02:54 PM
Enough of the sad look back

Somebody please give us the bright side, if there be one. Whats on the horizon? Give us some hopeful news. I admit to not being on the ball with what has been hapenning in the industry, but many here hint at brighter days with new motors from new sources. Chinese imports, I hate to say, sound hopeful. Quest had some ambitious plans, did they not? Are there any "new" Vernon Estes out there, with a love for the sport and manufacturing capabilities?

ghrocketman
01-13-2006, 02:57 PM
Doug,
I really like your proposal for getting rid of 18mm 1/2A and A engines and replacing them all with 13mm, especially if we could get the equivalent to a 1/2A6-0 (the old 1/2A3-0T would be fine) and the A10-0T back.
I just bought 6 paks of A10-0T's from a hobby shop in Northern Michigan last month.
When flying A's I have already all but replaced the 18mm motors anyway; I save my empty/used 18mm engines, bore out the nozzle and insert the mini-motor 1/4, 1/2, and full A's into these in order to fit them to my smaller 18mm models. As this may or may not be considered motor modification (to the expended 18mm casing) this may not be NAR legal.
In that case one can buy Dummy/Empty 18mm casings from Semroc cheaply and use them infinitely as adaptor sleeves. This could not be possibly against the safety code.

I'm definitely all for consolidation of equivalent motors especially if it will get us at least 1 or two different offerings such as a 1/2A or A booster or a B14/B8 or C5 equivalent or an 18mm "Baby" D similar to the old Cox D8 or a high thrust 24mm BP D booster (like the old FSI D20/D18 core burner, but MORE reliable). One would think a hi-thrust core burning motor based on the D12 would be easy & would not have to have a drilled core like the B14.... a manufacturer could cast/pound the BP slug around a "core-spike" made of a non-sparking brass like material.

ghrocketman
01-13-2006, 03:01 PM
For me, I see virtually no bright side to the BP engine side of the hobby.
Lots of great part and kit manufacturers in the LPR area of rocketry though....even better than in the heyday late 60's/early 70's in my opinion...I just wish the motor arena went hand in hand with the kits/parts.
As far as I'm concerned, the "new" Vern Estes is Carl at Semroc; his selection of Estes/Centuri parts makes cloning a snap, and who else would have a K-29 Saturn 1B Clone( for $45.00, 1/70 Little Joe II (for $18.00), a Mars Lander, and an Aero Dart (for $30) coming soon as new kits in addition to all the great kits/clones he offers ?
Semroc's service and quality are second to none, prices are great, shipment is FAST, and they even give free kits when you order so much just like Centuri/Estes used to in the old days.
Another great manufacturer is PD Rocketry, if you like the 1970's era Estes kits...he has may items from the K-21 Gemini Titan to the Thor-Agena B to the A20 Demon. Quality is also VERY good.
For me the bright side of MOTORS is in the MPR-HPR area of motors which their seems to be almost infinite variety; unfortuantely the costs sometimes seem infinite too ! :eek:

tbzep
01-13-2006, 04:03 PM
Unless Estes/Quest, or somebody else does come up with some new and different motors, I won't be buying many motors for a while. I haven't counted to be exact, but I probably have around 450 motors that I've picked up over the last few years on clearance sales, going out of business sales, coupon days at HL, etc. The vast majority of them are normal motors, including boosters of 13mm, 18mm, 24mm sizes (including C11-0's), plugged E15 and D11-P's, and all the normal motor sizes and delays from 1/4A to E9. I've made myself slack off on buying motors until I can burn off a decent amount of the inventory, but if I catch another clearance sale, you bet I'll jump on it. ;)

If Estes or Quest comes up with something new and different, I'll buy a few. If Semroc or another US company is able to start motor production, I'll buy some of whatever they come out with to help get the business started. You can never have too many motor manufacturers or motors!


BTW, for the folks that want to import from China. The pyrotechnics hobby is pretty strong. Has anybody tried working with them to piggyback some motor shipments from China to go along with some of their imported components or completed fireworks? I think I've read that at least one of some of their motors manufacturerd by fireworks companies anyway. I don't really know, just a shot in the dark....

Green Dragon
01-13-2006, 04:54 PM
ok, found the link tot he Chinese Motors I had.

http://www.made-in-china.com/products/show/freemember/prod/TAwMDA5OTEwN/mic/_Toy-Model_Rocket_Engine_(A6-3,_B6-4,_C6-4,_D5-0).html

now, look that over and note the 'cool' and IN PRODUCTION motors we'd want :-)

just need to find a way to get them intot he US, I know I've written / contacted this company with little results, and Phred has tried to get samples for his collection, with no response that I know of.

check the 12.5mm dia B2 and the 20mm D5-0 !

~ AL

( dreaming of good BP motors )

tbzep
01-13-2006, 05:51 PM
just need to find a way to get them intot he US, I know I've written / contacted this company with little results, and Phred has tried to get samples for his collection, with no response that I know of.

Have you guys tried to enlist the pyrotechnic groups to help you with this? I may be misinformed here. I know that a lot of the pyrotechnic stuff they use comes from domestic sources, but I thought a significant amount of stuff, both pre-made and components, came from China.

dwmzmm
01-14-2006, 12:31 PM
There is one "local" vendor here in the Houston area who still has the 24 mm C motors as
well as the 13 mm A10-0T's. Go to this follow link and check it out:

http://www.launchpad2000.com

This mail order vendor is partly owned/run by one of our Challenger 498 club member and
officer, Harvey Miller III, and has a reputation for fast, friendly service. Around the middle
of last year, at a club launch, I personally asked Harvey about the avaliable stock of the
A10-0T's, and he assured me they have plenty on hand. I assume the same is true for the
24 mm C's. They also have the popular AT motors as well.

John Brohm
01-14-2006, 10:00 PM
... The guys at PSC can verify how much I launched last summer and fall...right John???

Joe W

That's correct - Joe came in second as our most Frequent Flyer in 2005. At the rate Joe was flying we were beginning to wonder if he had worked out a stock option with Barry! Way to go Joe!

Our 2006 FF program gets underway in April. I'm investigating prizes even better than last year. Joe - are you going to be able to make few launches with us this year now that you've relocated?

BTW -we had our January launch today (as opposed to tomorrow - Steeler Day tomorrow!); we had to abort due to wind.

CPMcGraw
01-15-2006, 02:05 PM
Estes has discontinued the C11-5, leaving the C11-3 as the only C11 still being produced.

The Estes B6-0 has NOT been discontinued.

Unfortunately, Quest has discontinued the B6-0 and the B6-2.

Hey, Scott...

Just saw this in another list's message...

The Screamin' Mimi was also discontinued. This really bites as much (if not more) than the loss of the C11, since it has so much that can be used for cloning a bunch of older kits..

Rocketaholic
01-16-2006, 06:51 AM
I was perusing through a 1970 Semroc magazine on line and saw a nice variety of motors that was offered by the company back then.

Apogee used to carry a nice variety as well, prior to the Aerotech bldg burning to the ground in Vegas and having to relocate. That was a shame I know, but those are some of the risks that go along with motor making.

It would be nice to have a large variety to choose from, but I know that supply and demand and what motors sell more often probably has a lot to do with it.

I really liked the Enerjet motors, they were really a unique motor to say the least. :cool: