ESTES Magician #1943

[Balsa Bob]

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the plans to this rocket? Here's a link to a picture (http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/catalogs/estes85/85est34.html) from the 1985 ESTES catalogue:


Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. -BB

[CPMcGraw]

Bob,

Unless someone has scanned this one and sent it to Scott recently, the Magician is still listed as MIA. One thing you can write down, however, is the nose cone -- PNC-55AO. You can substitute either the BMS or SEMROC BNC-55AO in its place. Finding this cone in plastic is becoming more and more difficult with each passing month.

The catalog lists the total length as 16.75", and the 55AO cone is 5" long. This suggests that the body tube might be the BT-55IJ, which is 9" long. Adding these two lengths together gives us 14", and that leaves 2.75" for the fin sweep-back. All we really need are some good fin scans from an existing model, and we can all build it...

[CPMcGraw]

Here's a quick pattern I drew up based on the catalog image. I don't know how close this is to the original, but I think it's not too far off.

The fin has a 45-degree sweep, so that simplifies at least two dimensions -- the distance from the bottom of the tube to the floor, and from the edge of the tube outward to the point where the fin touches the floor. They're the same, 2.75".

The root edge was a guess at 1.75". It looks right, it's not as long as the distance from the bottom of the tube to the floor, and it just sounds like a figure someone might "pull out of the air".

The tip edge and footing edge were a compromise, with the footing set at an arbitrary 0.5" wide. The tip edge is a result from this choice, being about 1.3".

Now what we need is to have someone with an original Magician measure their model and check to see if I'm close enough for gubberment work...

[Fore Check]

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/estes/est2025/est2025.htm

Yes, the Magician and the Meteor (#2025 Meteor, that is) were identical - except that the Magician had a 24mm motor mount rather than the 18mm mount in the Meteor (cover art and decals being other obvious differences.)

You know - same story as the Estes Optima and Shadow; Super Big Bertha and BroadSword. Same rockets, different engine mounts and decorations.

I've sim'd this design on RocSim and made the engine mount 3.75" long and loaded 'er up with an E9-8. Sims to over 2300' with no nose weight necessary. Nice design!

By the way - I have one of these Meteor kits handy in my "lab." I noticed that the Plans do not reference a length on the body tube. I can go measure mine if you want me to.

The BNC55AO "Goblin" style nose cone is accurate.

[Ltvscout]

By the way - I have one of these Meteor kits handy in my "lab." I noticed that the Plans do not reference a length on the body tube. I can go measure mine if you want me to.

The BNC55AO "Goblin" style nose cone is accurate.
Instead of measuring it, check out this post I just made for any and all info you would need for Estes tubes and nose cones.

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=678

[CPMcGraw]

Yes, the Magician and the Meteor (#2025 Meteor, that is) were identical - except that the Magician had a 24mm motor mount rather than the 18mm mount in the Meteor (cover art and decals being other obvious differences.)

You know - same story as the Estes Optima and Shadow; Super Big Bertha and BroadSword. Same rockets, different engine mounts and decorations.

Thanks, Fore Check, for that update!

Horrible camera angles! The eye can really be fooled, especially with that trailing edge transition.

How many times now has Estes recycled a design, not just a name?

Lessee...

Magician --> Meteor
Zipper --> Blue Star
Optima --> Shadow
Super Big Bertha --> Broadsword
Apogee II (Upper Stage) --> Mini Bertha
Ranger --> Big Bertha
Vigilante (Upper Stage) --> Comet

Any others?

[tbzep]

There's a bunch they recycled from Centuri also.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

There's a bunch they recycled from Centuri also.

Lets not forget those they recycled FOR Centuri. ;)
http://www.dars.org/jimz/cen5348.htm

[duobob]

Lets not forget those they recycled FOR Centuri

I like the Centuri version, the updated nose cone looks good :D
I guess I'll have to clone that, it should be easy since I'm building the Estes Satellite Interceptor now!

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Lets not forget those they recycled FOR Centuri

I like the Centuri version, the updated nose cone looks good :D
I guess I'll have to clone that, it should be easy since I'm building the Estes Satellite Interceptor now!

Yeah, but the paint and decal scheme are among the worst ever. Gold/blue/white and red?

[Rocketking]

Tom @ Tango Papa did alright by me...

Let him do the research for the image.

[flyemhigh]

Here's a quick pattern I drew up based on the catalog image. I don't know how close this is to the original, but I think it's not too far off.

The fin has a 45-degree sweep, so that simplifies at least two dimensions -- the distance from the bottom of the tube to the floor, and from the edge of the tube outward to the point where the fin touches the floor. They're the same, 2.75".

The root edge was a guess at 1.75". It looks right, it's not as long as the distance from the bottom of the tube to the floor, and it just sounds like a figure someone might "pull out of the air".

The tip edge and footing edge were a compromise, with the footing set at an arbitrary 0.5" wide. The tip edge is a result from this choice, being about 1.3".

Now what we need is to have someone with an original Magician measure their model and check to see if I'm close enough for gubberment work...

Hi all. I am new to this forum. I happened to stumble onto this forum when I was Googling the Estes Magician. I have been looking for the kit itself or plans for it. I am thinking about upscaling the Magician eventually for a big project (possible level 3 project?). I want to build the Magician in its original size as well.

If someone has all the specs on this particular kit, please let me know. I wrote down the information that was posted regarding this kit. I wrote down the measurements, the size of the body tube, etc.

The last time I saw the Magician, was when my father flew it when Iwas about 7 years old. My father still has it. I will see if he will let me borrow his so I can get accurate measurements for everyone here.

[duobob]

Hi
The Magician is the same kit as the Meteor with diffrent decals here is a link to the plans for the Meteor http://www.oldrocketplans.com/estes/est2025/est2025.htm

[flyemhigh]

Thanks for that. Does anyone have the measurements of the fins?

[CPMcGraw]

Thanks for that. Does anyone have the measurements of the fins?

The JPG image of the original fins, est2025e.jpg, is a full-size scan. It also has a ruler in the image for scale.

Use RockSim to do your upscale project. It will save you a lot of frustration on getting the CG and CP balances and the proper power range.

[flyemhigh]

Once I get all the measurements for the Magician, I will ask someone to Rocksim it for me as I don't have the program. I mentioned this kit to the club I fly with as a club project. I want to do a 3x upscale of the Magician for myself and maybe a 6x upscale as a club project. For the 3x upscale, I am looking to fly it on 38mm motors. The club version can be either 54mm or 75mm.

[CPMcGraw]

Once I get all the measurements for the Magician, I will ask someone to Rocksim it for me as I don't have the program. I mentioned this kit to the club I fly with as a club project. I want to do a 3x upscale of the Magician for myself and maybe a 6x upscale as a club project. For the 3x upscale, I am looking to fly it on 38mm motors. The club version can be either 54mm or 75mm.

I'm sure someone here :D could work up a good RS version, but you'd still need the program to view the results. Since you're describing a club project, perhaps your club could split the cost for a copy. At ~$100, if you have five members, that's only $20 per member. Considering what the rocket itself will wind up costing you, especially motor costs these days, the price for RockSim will be a small investment. It's an efficient way to share designs among many; the BARCLONE collection would be nearly impossible to work up without it, because traditional instruction booklets take so long to put together.

[flyemhigh]

It looks as if the club project is going to be the Athena ICBM.

I think I will just stick to my 3x upscale of the Magician. I will ask someone to Rocksim it for me if I don't have the program by then. It will be my first HPR scratch-built. I have three other projects to build first. I am thinking a 38mm mount will definitely make some magic :) .

[flyemhigh]

I did some checking and a 3x upscale of this magnificent model would be :

40.25" tall, 3.975" in diameter, distance from edge of tube outward and from end of tube to the floor would be 8.25", root edge is 5.25", footing is 1.5", tip edge is 3.9"

That is going by the measurements that were posted here. Could someone check and see if I am off on any of the measurements? I am thinking about using LOC tubing and a 38mm motor mount will be used.