My first post here

[bikegod]

Ok, first post here.

I used to build smaller rockets in the 70's before my family moved to Japan.


3 years ago my Father in Law picked up an Estes Code Red Kit and some extra engines and gave it to me for Christmas. I have a small kid and at the time didn't have time for it, but like all things that fly, it began calling to me. I broke it out one day and had a fine launch and ended up using 11 engines (two in the kit and three additional packs that he had bought with it). My kid liked it just fine, but I wanted something that I could really build and the starter set only needed the parachute tied on.

Went to a craft store and bought the first of two Guardian Rocket kits. The first one took me five full days (days off and some snow days) to build to my liking. I made it match the picture on the package to a tee. Had some trouble with the spirals and filling them in (too bad I hadn't seen this forum yet). Only got one flight out of the first Guardian. A gust of wind took it away into the woods and I have yet to be able to spot it. Bought a few discontinued kits online but all of them were E2X and didn't take too long to assemble. The next Guardian I am finishing up on I painted RED wherever there was supposed to be black.

What I am finding is, though the flights are cool, I really like building them. I would like to build a bigger rocket (D or E powered). I like the BT-60 size. I would like to use 3 tubes at 15" but I am concerned about chute deployement (can the ejection charge fill up that much space) and structural integrity of the three tubes at that length.

Have so far found only 8 different nosecones. A payload section would be kind of cool too (send some of my daughter's toys into space just to keep her attention).

Thanks in advance for suggestions and advice.

bikegod (also in Kite forums)

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

What I am finding is, though the flights are cool, I really like building them. I would like to build a bigger rocket (D or E powered). I like the BT-60 size. I would like to use 3 tubes at 15" but I am concerned about chute deployement (can the ejection charge fill up that much space) and structural integrity of the three tubes at that length.


Not to worry. The ejection charges these days can fill the space with oomph to spare.

[stefanj]

Sounds like a plan. The result will be a bit like the "Mean Machine."

Have you tried building a kit with "Through The Wall" fins? This technique would be appropriate for this size model.

You won't need an especially big parachute. Long models tend to "glide"on the way back.

[CPMcGraw]

Ok, first post here.

I used to build smaller rockets in the 70's before my family moved to Japan.

Welcome to the Land of the BARs...

...I wanted something that I could really build and the starter set only needed the parachute tied on.

...What I am finding is, though the flights are cool, I really like building them.

...Have so far found only 8 different nosecones. A payload section would be kind of cool too

I'll be tooting a familiar horn here...

Be sure to check out SEMROC for some of the best in classic, traditional-style kits and parts -- beautiful, great-smelling, balsa parts. You'll feel like it's the '70s all over again when you look at his website www.semroc.com (http://www.semroc.com/) ...

For additional components (again, balsa...) add www.balsamachining.com (http://www.balsamachining.com/) to your FAVORITES list, too...

Catalogs from Centuri and Estes, old magazines, and other publications are located at http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/rockets.html (http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rockets/rockets.html) . Keep a towel handy for your mouth...

For plans to the old Estes and Centuri (and other companies') kits, browse to plans.rocketshoppe.com (http://plans.rocketshoppe.com/) and http://www.dars.org/jimz/rp00.htm (http://www.dars.org/jimz/rp00.htm) .

Finally, for new plans which require scratch building (not from kits), check out barclone.rocketshoppe.com (http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com/).

Welcome to our little insane asylum, and keep us posted...

[bikegod]

I've heard the term "thru the wall" but like most of my learning, I need to see how it's done.

I had seen some of those links, but the Balsa Machining one shows promise.

Thankfully, I read the topics about Empire already. I wasn't sure about Semroc since the site seems old. Wanted to check here if anyone was doing business with them currently.

How do you feel about the reloadable motor systems? Are they really cheaper per flight or only with the really big engines (F and G).

Thanks in advance

[stefanj]

Semroc is friendly, reliable, and run by aliens with a matter replicator. (That's the only explanation I can think of to explain their huge inventory.)

The best way to learn about "through the wall" construction is to buy a kit that uses it, like the Estes Fat Boy.

Briefly: The fins have a tab on the root edge that fits into a slot cut in the body tube. The root edge of the tab glues to the motor mount tube. More glue in and around the slot; modest fillets on the outer surface.

[JRThro]

Semroc is friendly, reliable, and run by aliens with a matter replicator. (That's the only explanation I can think of to explain their huge inventory.)

The best way to learn about "through the wall" construction is to buy a kit that uses it, like the Estes Fat Boy.

Briefly: The fins have a tab on the root edge that fits into a slot cut in the body tube. The root edge of the tab glues to the motor mount tube. More glue in and around the slot; modest fillets on the outer surface.
The Quest PayloaderONE also has through the wall fins, and I'm sure there are other kits that I don't know about.

[ghrocketman]

The following kits from Semroc also use Through-The-Wall fin construction:
SLS Scorpion
SLS Jaguar
SLS Javelin
SLS Sky Hook

I have built and flown both the SLS Scorpion and the SLS Jaguar.
Both are excellent kits to build, and both fly great as well !
I have only flown mine on 24mm Engines (Estes C11-3, C11-5, D12-7, and Aerotech RMS 24 "D" engines for both, and Estes E9-8 for Scorpion only), never on 29mm engines.
I don't think you would have any hope of recovering either of them on a 29mm ANYTHING unless one flies them in an EXTREMELY large field.

[dwmzmm]

The Estes StormCaster also has through the wall fin construction. The kit can usually be
found in most Hobby Lobby stores, and is a very handsome and good looking kit to have
in your fleet (but, be sure to modify it to accept the E9 motors). I built my daughter's
StormCaster, and it flies excellent on a D12-5.

[dwmzmm]

The Estes StormCaster also has through the wall fin construction. The kit can usually be
found in most Hobby Lobby stores, and is a very handsome and good looking kit to have
in your fleet (but, be sure to modify it to accept the E9 motors). I built my daughter's
StormCaster, and it flies excellent on a D12-5.

Here's several photos of that flight (top three on page 11):

http://www.challenger498.org/gallery/album16?page=11

Same model also flew at the Ballunar Festival at JSC several months later.

[bikegod]

The StormCaster looks like a nice kit, but I think that the next thing that I build will be of my own design. I may still treat myself (since it is easily available at Michaels) though 8 kits later and the only true happiness I seem to be finding is in kits like the Viking and Guardian.

I do want something bi.gger.

Need to find the Meanie that was mentioned.

Does thru the wall fin make the fins stronger? Is it that increased thrust of D engines and up rip glued on fins right off (keeeewl!)?

BTW, the link to the scratch builts really has my mind reeling with possibilities.

Thanks for allowing me to be chatty and ask lots of Noob questions.

[PaulK]

Welcome fellow BAR! You might like the Thrustline Arapahoe-E, the next generation Cherokee-D. A very interesting build with the boat-tail and strakes, and even better looking when its done. Takes C11 through E9 engines. The kits from Thrustline are very nice.

www.thrustaero.com

-Paul

[dwmzmm]

The through-the-wall fin constrution technique is one used by those flying LMR and HPR; but
can be just as effective in standard model rockets. It gives the fin/bodytube joints much more strength as the fins can be straighter and less prone to striping during stress in flight
resulting from the "larger" motors. A case in point, my FSI vintage Maverick has flown many
times using the D12 and E9; after several flights, one fin did strip off. To date, just about all
four of the fins have striped off in one form or another, but I've always been able to just re-
glue them each time.

[stefanj]

You need some pretty fearsome acceleration to rip off a well-glued-on surface-mounted fin.

Where TTW helps is resist breakage during general handling and (especially) landing. The very long BT-60 model you mention would be especially subject to rough landings. "Mean Machines" break fins like crazy!

I forgot about the Stormcaster. I also recommend it as a good introduction to D / E power flying. With a 40% off Michael's coupon you can get one for a very reasonable amount of money.

[bikegod]

Where's that coupon right now. Last Sunday's paper?

Who cares, I might go after that StormCaster, just to try one out.

I wish there was a local shop to buy tubes. I hate waiting on the mail.

[CPMcGraw]

Where's that coupon right now. Last Sunday's paper?

You should sign up for Hobby Lobby's internet advertisements. That's where we get the coupons, and the "heads-up" for their infamous half-price sales...

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

You should sign up for Hobby Lobby's internet advertisements. That's where we get the coupons, and the "heads-up" for their infamous half-price sales...

What Craig said:
http://www.hobbylobby.com/site3/home2.cfm
:cool:

[Ltvscout]

Where's that coupon right now. Last Sunday's paper?
Yes, this past Sunday had a Michael's ad with a 40% off coupon in it.

[Nuke Rocketeer]

Yeah, welcome to BARhood and open your wallet wide. Also, you oughta increase the limit on your plastic money while you're at it.

I agree with trying Semroc, and if you want to try some good semi-scale models, go to Dr. Zooch at:

http://drzooch.com/

Wes makes some really good challenging scale kits. I've built the SA-5 and it was fun to build and fly.

Joe W

[bikegod]

HobbyLobby is unfortunately hours away from me.

I am currently searching for Sunday's paper.


That E rocket may take a backseat to a booster pack of engines (24). I currently have 8 in my fleet. 6 of them take standard engines.

[bikegod]

Okay, coupon says 1 per customer per day.

I went to michaels and said that I left my coupon at home and they let me still buy it.

I have the StormCaster! Tomorrow or Friday I will also buy a pack of those standard engines.


The Stormcaster seems to only take the D's. Is there a Mod for E's? Nevermind, just read the instructions and it looks like I adjust the depth, assuming E engines are just longer.

[CPMcGraw]

... it looks like I adjust the depth, assuming E engines are just longer.

The E motors are 1" longer than standard D motors.

[bikegod]

will I need to change the engine hook? Not to mention the engine block retainer ring?

[CPMcGraw]

will I need to change the engine hook? Not to mention the engine block retainer ring?

You could, or you could leave the hook out completely. If the motor tube is 5" long, I'd put a single CR-2050 ring at one end, then use a spacer (a length of coupler tubing cut to fit) to fill the gap when you use short motors, like the D.

By not putting a motor hook in, you are no longer limited to the Estes motors, but you can use Aerotech reloadables and one-time-use composites.

[bikegod]

cooooooooooool! The kit comes with the 2050 engine block as well as a spacer tube (just like the one in the Viking). I'll glue the 2050 ring in at 3" instead of 2" and leave off the engine hook.

My guess is, as long as I have 1/4" of engine sticking out, I will be able to remove the spent engine. I am also guessing a piece of tape on the engine to keep it from kicking out on the ejection charge, am I right?

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Yes. Just keep a pair of pliers or a multi-tool in your range box to pull any stuck engine casings out.

[bikegod]

I've seen stuff on clustering, are the igniters wired in Parallel or Series circuit?

It probably won't be long till I am trying stuff like that.

I think that I will bash this stormcaster. Got it for $6 and some change. Going back tomorrow to get a Gemini DC and maybe another Stormcaster the next day. Cute Cashier actually offered me coupons to take to the other stores.

Michaels still has the Fat Boy as well. Those three kits offer a lot of parts that I was considering ordering online to put something together myself.


And as far as the cashier, I think she was being nice to me because my 7 yo daughter was with me. Now she really is cute. I always take her with me because the sales help really starts acting nice when she's around.

[CPMcGraw]

I've seen stuff on clustering, are the igniters wired in Parallel or Series circuit?

Always in parallel.

Find a copy of Stine's Handbook. It covers all of this juicy tech in detail...:D

[bikegod]

Well, the Stormcaster made a good base. Changed the fins, added wings, upper and span and used the nose cone from a Screaming Mimi (better length).

I have pictures of the in progress and a RockSim file. Have a host for the pics, but how can I post the RockSim?

With D12-5 I get over 500' stable. The mmt is way long (almost the entire lower half of the body) and I put the engine block all the way at the end. I can put any 24mm engine and even the Ellis mountain G37 worked fine on RockSim. 2000', but I am not sure I have the space to fly that.

HannahMonster and I launched an Astrosat LSX with a bobblehead toy (on an 8" parachute that I home crafted). No problems. I don't have an altimeter yet, but I used a C6 so we are guessing 600'.

Launched a Swift and lost it in the sky (A3-4T). Saw the ejection charge and nothing. Went up fast and far. That was HannahMonster's rocket. Pink with disney stickers. If it ever comes down in your neck of the woods let me know.

No.2 Skywriter went up just fine as well. The winds started to pick up after that so we flew just one more with a streamer recovery and A3 engines. An Estes X-ray with a piece of candy and a dime in it. Ejection charge separated the payload section and shock cord. Though we were on soccer fields, we never found the payload section. Again, if you find it, help yourself to the candy, and use the dime to call us and tell us if the candy tastes different after being shot up 400 or so feet.

The Xray, Swift, and Skywriter were all first flights. Not launched (though we had planned it) were a custom Guardian, custom Viking, and the Estes FireFlash.

Sorry such a long post, but my daughter was so jazzed up about the flight (though we lost her rocket) that she wanted to do another. Got her a Gnome on the way home (so we can use up the rest of those A engines I bought) and I will only supervise the construction of this one. She can't wait to see the one I am building now. I haven't named it, and I can't say it is very original, but I did plan and design it with the demo version of RocSim. If it resembles your rocket, sorry, didn't mean it.

[CPMcGraw]

I have pictures of the in progress and a RockSim file. Have a host for the pics, but how can I post the RockSim?

...my daughter was so jazzed up about the flight (though we lost her rocket) that she wanted to do another. Got her a Gnome on the way home (so we can use up the rest of those A engines I bought) and I will only supervise the construction of this one. She can't wait to see the one I am building now. I haven't named it, and I can't say it is very original, but I did plan and design it with the demo version of RocSim. If it resembles your rocket, sorry, didn't mean it.

You can send both images and RKT files here for posting! The forum software understands what RKT files are, and has no problem with uploads or downloads. This is where I send all of the new BARCLONE designs before they get posted to the website...

Great flight report, BTW. Grab a few packs of 1/2A3-4T and 1/4A3-3T motors for those tiny models, like the Swift 220 and the Mosquito. Full A-class motors are just way-too-overpowered for those models. :D

Sounds like one happy camper you have there, BG. Congrats!:)

[bikegod]

Ok, here is the RocSim file and I trimmed down the pics as best I could. Light was flat and overcast today but quite warm. The tubes of the rocket aren't finished and neither are the wings, but in what light we had I could not get the contrast to show the details.

On the RocSim, I color the parts differently so they show up better. Still don't know what the real colors are going to be, but after today and losing her little rocket and the payload section of the Xray, you better believe it will be bright.

I am anxiously awaiting tips on filling in the balsa grain and tube spirals. Probably head to Lowes tomorrow for FnF

Here's the first part:

[bikegod]

and the rest....

The last was our sacrifice to the Rocketry Gods.

Probably going to scratch the tube fins, still don't know. I like the looks but they really do nothing for the flight. Wanted to add the whistles from the Mimi, but I can't seem to get RocSim to add them on (or the weight)

[CPMcGraw]

and the rest....

The last was our sacrifice to the Rocketry Gods.

Probably going to scratch the tube fins, still don't know. I like the looks but they really do nothing for the flight. Wanted to add the whistles from the Mimi, but I can't seem to get RocSim to add them on (or the weight)

I'm looking over the RKT file now...

I hope you don't mind my "tweaking" the file a tad...:rolleyes: The components were not lining up the same way your actual model has them. I also added two 3/16" launch lugs...

Once I got the components located like the photos, I found three excellent motor selections for your design.

D15-4......660'.....12 FPS
F12-5.....1300'.....11 FPS
F32-5.....1900'.....15 FPS

These motors are all from Aerotech, and are one-time-use (not reloads).

I like this, BG! Can I put the revised design on BARCLONE? Do you have a name for this design?

[SEL]

Ok, here is the RocSim file and I trimmed down the pics as best I could. Light was flat and overcast today but quite warm. The tubes of the rocket aren't finished and neither are the wings, but in what light we had I could not get the contrast to show the details.

On the RocSim, I color the parts differently so they show up better. Still don't know what the real colors are going to be, but after today and losing her little rocket and the payload section of the Xray, you better believe it will be bright.

I am anxiously awaiting tips on filling in the balsa grain and tube spirals. Probably head to Lowes tomorrow for FnF

Here's the first part:

Nice design, BG!! My only critique is that the balsa grain on your fins runs paralell to the body tube, which leaves them wide open to snapping in half on landing or even shredding with the higher thrust motors. A better (ie: stronger) way is to have the balsa grain run along the leading edge of the fins into the body tube rather than paralell to it. Nice work!

Sean

[bikegod]

Of course I don't mind the tweaking, that's part of the learning experience. If I didn't want advice I wouldn't be sharing :)

I don't have a name for it, so feel free to make suggestions. What about NU-B1ST (Newbie 1st) in honor of my first bash.

I had some issues with the RocSim. At one point I had been working on the design over the course of a few days. I had left it on my design computer while I was working on it but neglected to save it. I couldnt' figure out how to add just two tube fins aligned with the top fin (something I wanted to see). Well, while working with the radial position, RocSim crashed and I lost everything.

The file you saw was me rebuilding the file from memory. Thanks for putting the correct tags as well. I am still trying to get the terminology down.

My version is still the demo, what would the velocity at deployment be with a D12-5 from Estes? I have a pack of those itching to go in there (as well as a Screaming Mimi Model that really should be built as something).

I really appreciate all of you on the forum guiding me in my first attempts!

[CPMcGraw]

Nice design, BG!! My only critique is that the balsa grain on your fins runs paralell to the body tube, which leaves them wide open to snapping in half on landing or even shredding with the higher thrust motors. A better (ie: stronger) way is to have the balsa grain run along the leading edge of the fins into the body tube rather than paralell to it. Nice work!

Sean

I didn't notice that when I looked at the images...

Locate some model aircraft silk (very lightweight stuff), and apply it with clear dope to those balsa surfaces. Apply a doubler layer (about 1/2" wide should be enough) to the root-to-body tube area. Saturate the weave to adhere it. Apply two or three additional coats of dope, sand lightly (400-grit paper!) to knock down the roughness, then hit it with a good coat of Kilz. The silk should add enough reinforcement to those fins to allow "F" flights.

One additional note: Don't use the old brown kraft tubes with this method. Use the modern white tubes. You can now get these from SEMROC. The older tubes had a wax-like coating that will keep the dope from sticking properly. Sand the tubes a bit to "roughen up" the areas where you apply the dope so it can get a better "bite".

Since you've already primed your model, you might want to try another type of cloth applied similarly. Locate some 0.5 oz, 0.65 oz, or 0.75 oz fiberglass cloth. Apply this with thinned white glue. Double the thickness at the root-to-BT joint. When this has dried, hit it with Kilz.

[CPMcGraw]

Of course I don't mind the tweaking, that's part of the learning experience. If I didn't want advice I wouldn't be sharing :)

I don't have a name for it, so feel free to make suggestions. What about NU-B1ST (Newbie 1st) in honor of my first bash.

Thanks. I'll send this to the website for the next update.

I couldnt' figure out how to add just two tube fins aligned with the top fin (something I wanted to see). Well, while working with the radial position, RocSim crashed and I lost everything.

When you say "two tube fins aligned with the top fin", do you mean along each side of the fin? Or, one tube fin at the 0-degree TDC position of the main body tube with the fin sticking out on top of that, and the other tube fin at the 180-degree BDC position?

My version is still the demo, what would the velocity at deployment be with a D12-5 from Estes? I have a pack of those itching to go in there (as well as a Screaming Mimi Model that really should be built as something).

I really appreciate all of you on the forum guiding me in my first attempts!

Here's what RocSim comes up with for the Estes D12-5:

D12-5.....575'.....27 FPS

Flyable, but the Dv is a little high. You need to reef the shroud lines to slow down the opening. Basically, this is like putting a small 4-hole shirt button onto the shroud lines (on a six-line parachute, 2 shroud lines are each run through three of the holes) and running the button up against the parachute before folding and packing it into the model. This "drags against" the lines as the parachute is trying to open up, and works like a brake, slowing the speed of opening as air fills the canopy.

[CPMcGraw]

I had some issues with the RocSim. At one point I had been working on the design over the course of a few days. I had left it on my design computer while I was working on it but neglected to save it. I couldnt' figure out how to add just two tube fins aligned with the top fin (something I wanted to see). Well, while working with the radial position, RocSim crashed and I lost everything.

I'm seeing what you saw. This is a clear and unmistakable bug in RocSim. I now believe I have what you wanted...

[bikegod]

I chose to put the make the wings with the grain due to their size and the local availability of balsa sheets. the largest I could find was 4" wide, and instead of making the wings in 3 pieces and gluing them together. The pieced wings would probably be weaker due to the seams vs. the one piece wing, in my opinion, but first flight will tell.

I hadn't yet primed the model, the sun and the flash of the camera gave a poor contrast and the entire thing looked like it was primed in the outside shot. I had thought to "dope" the wings and the fins. I really thought I had the grain at a diagonal to the body since I cut the leading edge along the grain, but it seems that I only did that for the wings.

I am tempted to remake the fins with basswood, but for now I will go with what I have and do a test flight before painting. Whatever breaks will be a learning experience. Once repaired, I get to practice with an inherited airbrush. Can't wait to try that.

Hopefully I will have a flight report for you this weekend. I really appreciate all the advice to help me get my first project right.

[CPMcGraw]

I chose to... make the wings with the grain due to their size and the local availability of balsa sheets... I am tempted to remake the fins with basswood...

Study the following patterns for those fins and wings, and see the grain pattern (most of us) would recommend. You only need to split those wings into two pieces of 1/8" sheet. Use 3/32" sheet for the canards and the stabilizers.

Don't use basswood. It's a weight issue.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Don't use basswood. It's a weight issue.


Does this basswood make my butt look big? :eek:

[CPMcGraw]

Does this basswood make my butt look big? :eek:

That's one of those dangerous questions which are often asked by the more intelligent and better-looking half, but which all too often get answered with "Yes, Dear..." by the other half, who generally realize about a half-second too late that silence would have been the more sensible -- not to mention safer -- reply... :rolleyes:

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

That's one of those dangerous questions which are often asked by the more intelligent and better-looking half, but which all too often get answered with "Yes, Dear..." by the other half, who generally realize about a half-second too late that silence would have been the more sensible -- not to mention safer -- reply... :rolleyes:

I like the commercial where the hot wife comes out in a clingy silver dress and asks her distracted husband the dreaded question. I feel for the guy every time I hear him say "You betcha!" :D

[CPMcGraw]

I like the commercial where the hot wife comes out in a clingy silver dress and asks her distracted husband the dreaded question. I feel for the guy every time I hear him say "You betcha!" :D

I prefer the one where the wife comes out, asks the question, but the husband starts stuffing his mouth with some snack food and only mumbles. A much more sensible approach...:rolleyes:

[bikegod]

Well, I am almost done, but I need to find replacement thrust rings or even a tube that I could cut down to use as an adapter.

My engine tube is over 7 inches long and I got the ar2050 green ring (thrust ring) glued in the wrong place (all the way at the end of the tube).

Currently my choices include:

A used engine. Sliced up and at least one piece glude in place.

Friction mounting whatever engine I choose to install (that sort of scares me but I am willing try it). First flight will be a D12 on Sunday. I'd like to have a block mounted at 4" before first flight.

Is there a tube that someone sells that I could use for this purpose? The spacer tool that came with the Stormcaster seems woefully thin and week. I have searched thru Semroc, Discount, and many other sites looking for these.

As you can see, I opted to forego the tube fins (though they may be added later).

What thoughts do you have on taping in a D-12? And what tape works best for the friction fit?

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Well, I am almost done, but I need to find replacement thrust rings or even a tube that I could cut down to use as an adapter.

My engine tube is over 7 inches long and I got the ar2050 green ring (thrust ring) glued in the wrong place (all the way at the end of the tube).

Currently my choices include:

A used engine. Sliced up and at least one piece glude in place.

Friction mounting whatever engine I choose to install (that sort of scares me but I am willing try it). First flight will be a D12 on Sunday. I'd like to have a block mounted at 4" before first flight.

Is there a tube that someone sells that I could use for this purpose? The spacer tool that came with the Stormcaster seems woefully thin and week. I have searched thru Semroc, Discount, and many other sites looking for these.

As you can see, I opted to forego the tube fins (though they may be added later).

What thoughts do you have on taping in a D-12? And what tape works best for the friction fit?


Go ahead and slice off a piece of an old motor. This works great. I've done it dozens of times.
This is a really cool looking bird. I like the fact that you've completely finished it. SOME people never post pictures of their finished scratch build projects. :rolleyes:

[Carl@Semroc]

Currently my choices include:

Our LT-085 is .945" O.D., the same as a 24mm engine. How long does it need to be?

[JRThro]

Go ahead and slice off a piece of an old motor. This works great. I've done it dozens of times.
This is a really cool looking bird. I like the fact that you've completely finished it. SOME people never post pictures of their finished scratch build projects. :rolleyes:
Bill, some people never even *finish* their scratch build projects, in either sense of the word!

[CPMcGraw]

...Friction mounting whatever engine I choose to install (that sort of scares me but I am willing try it). First flight will be a D12 on Sunday. I'd like to have a block mounted at 4" before first flight...

This works well enough. Estes used this method in their D-powered Black Brant II...

Is there a tube that someone sells that I could use for this purpose? The spacer tool that came with the Stormcaster seems woefully thin and week.

Try this: Cut two 1/2" sections of that spacer tool. Glue one piece directly into the motor tube where you want it. Split the other section and remove a strip, then glue this inside the first piece. Instant double-thickness.

What thoughts do you have on taping in a D-12? And what tape works best for the friction fit?

Use a good-quality masking tape, and not the clear "Scotch-brand" tape. These latter types get really sticky and messy trying to remove the casing after flight. Wrap a single layer around the motor in two places, like at the front end and around the middle. Test fit the motor, and add little strips as needed until the fit is tight, but not so much that the motor tube is "crunched" pushing it in. Remember, as the motor heats up it will expand and finish filling the gaps. As long as the fit is reasonably tight, and as long as the nose cone and laundry are reasonably loose, the pressure will do its thing out the front.

As a secondary precaution, you could wrap a piece of masking tape around the base of the motor and the motor tube, providing a secondary seal. Even if the friction-fit doesn't hold, this layer will keep the motor in place. One or two wraps around the end should be more than enough...

[Ltvscout]

SOME people never post pictures of their finished scratch build projects. :rolleyes:
Some people haven't had time to do ANY building in a long time! ;) The stuff just keeps piling up down here. :o

[CPMcGraw]

Bill, some people never even *finish* their scratch build projects, in either sense of the word!

So, both of you have been peeking in the windows of my workshop area, huh? :rolleyes:

[bikegod]

Carl:

anything over 4 inches would be more than usable, but in all honesty I don't really know.

The original concept was to be able to use this wide variety of engines in it and just put a spacer in based on the length of the engine. The MMT is at least 7 inches long (my 6 inch ruler gets lost in there).

I have a Semroc order ready for Payday. I was just hoping someone would chime in with that part number. Really whatever size you have on hand works, and if it is small, I'll just get two.

One other thing Carl or anyone else, is the Semroc quad motor mount in the RockSim (that's getting ordered too)? I have another idea I am working on and want to hash out the idea before I build it.

Weather permitting, launch is Sunday, and we will be trying to video the thing. I currently have 8 in my fleet (Mimi, Guardian2, and NuB-1st are on first flight). Hope to have a good launch report to share.

Thanks to you guys for all of your help. I didn't take too many closeups since I had some paint bleeds under the tape that I was using. They are small but I know they are there.

Next step will be picking an RMS and loads for it. Suggestions are always appreciated.

[Carl@Semroc]

One other thing Carl or anyone else, is the Semroc quad motor mount in the RockSim (that's getting ordered too)? Attached are files for Quad mount and Dual mount. There are no sub-assemblies for the parts yet.

If you can get a closer measurement, we can cut it the correct length.

[JRThro]

Some people haven't had time to do ANY building in a long time! ;) The stuff just keeps piling up down here. :oI updated my TRF profile to reflect what I bought at NARCON, and I apparently now have more than 40 kits sitting around unbuilt, though I only know for sure where about 20 of them are. It may be time to take inventory again. :cool:

[bikegod]

Carl:

I think I will just order an 8" tube and cut it here. I tried to measure it but I can't be as precise as I would like. If I take the 8 slip it in and mark where it exits, then I will know for sure. From there I will subtract the length of the longest available engine and put a block in at that depth. From there the tube gets cut into spacers for different length engines. In theory this should be fine (though I am not the original theorist, I think it should fly).


JTHRO: Feel free to farm out any of those kits you want built, I have a little bit more time off my feet and my hands gotta keep doing stuff. I can get around OK if I need to go to the store and get supplies, but I am doing a lot of sitting (reclining) as my ankle heals. Did get a pretty cool desk for free and now have a good reason to set it up. Someone gave me a Drafting Desk. Pretty high end one too. Never been assembled.

1 piece of glass to cover the top (to keep the x-acto from tearing it up). New rocket platform. Then my only problem will be displaying them and carting them to the field without getting them bunged up.

[bikegod]

Flight Report: Nu-B1ST

Temp: 50-55F
Wind: NNW 5-15
Skies: Mostly Cloudy

Launched into the wind at just over 10 from TDC.

Engine used was the Estes D12-5 friction mounted

Flight was straight and true. Chute deployement just after apogee, some small damage to the top tube (dent). Since we had more than a few rockets to fly (and send up yet another toy using the AstroSat LSX) we opted hold off a second launch while the winds were tolerable.

Launched the Mimi with a D12 but did not get the cool whistling that we were looking forward too.

Then the troubles. Gnome went up on 1/2A engine and we lost it in the sky. Another sacrifice to the Rocket Gods. Fireflash went up and the Chute incinerated (not enough or poorly packed wadding). There is a lot of clay in that BT5 top tube so it came down like a spear. The B6 that we used got so hot that the plastic fin assembly melted. SkyWriter's shock cord mount gave way so the nose cone drifted down range but the body came straight down. We only used an A engine so it didn't have too far to fall. However the eraser look body tube looks like it was stepped on. It also is beyond repair.

Guardian2 on C6 had a wonderful flight and recovery without incident. Code Red had a misfire. We never got around to launching it.

AstroSat LSX, what a deal. Got this at Bellville hobby on clearance. The big body tube and room for two "satellites" leave me plenty of room to stuff in one of HannahMonster's little toys on an 8" chute. She was so excited she was dancing around all over the place.

My custom Viking got most of it's fins knocked off as well as I found a good crack in the wing of the Nu-B1ST and a suspicious footprint. Otherwise, transport launch and recovery did not break the wing. The crack is not all the way thru, so I am debating what to do. I may break it off, glue it, then do both wings in MonoKote.

Oh, we also found the remains of HannahMonster's Swift 220. Looks like it was trampled by a herd of wild buffalo. Even the tiny little nosecone was split in 3 places.

Well, that was my Sunday, how was yours?