Estes Teros kit's inspiration?

[blackshire]

Hello All,

As the Centuri Nomad was inspired by the Terrier (or was it the Tartar?) U.S. Navy SAM, was the Estes Teros kit (see: http://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/est1285.htm ) inspired by a full-scale ramjet test vehicle or prototype missile?

In the past I have seen photographs of NACA and contractor (Boeing, I think) ramjet test vehicles that resembled the Teros. Some of the NACA ones launched at Wallops Island used solid-fuel ramjet engines, and the Boeing one (I believe it was called "GAP," but I don't know what the letters stood for) had a paint scheme reminiscent of the one on the Teros.

[Rocketflyer]

Hello All,

As the Centuri Nomad was inspired by the Terrier (or was it the Tartar?) U.S. Navy SAM, was the Estes Teros kit (see: http://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/est1285.htm ) inspired by a full-scale ramjet test vehicle or prototype missile?

In the past I have seen photographs of NACA and contractor (Boeing, I think) ramjet test vehicles that resembled the Teros. Some of the NACA ones launched at Wallops Island used solid-fuel ramjet engines, and the Boeing one (I believe it was called "GAP," but I don't know what the letters stood for) had a paint scheme reminiscent of the one on the Teros.

I think more like the old Navy TALOS missile

[sandman]

I built a prototype a long time ago but it needed so much nose weight to make it stable I never did fly it.

[blackshire]

I think more like the old Navy TALOS missileNo, I'm referring to wingless ramjet test vehicles that looked like ordinary rockets, with fins at the rear but with no wings like the Talos & Vandal had, but with an axisymmetrical (Talos-like) ramjet air intake at the nose. These ramjet test vehicles looked somewhat like the Estes Teros.

[rokitflite]

I think more like the old Navy TALOS missile

Talos/Teros... I get it :D

[Chris_Timm]

How about this?

[blackshire]

How about this?Ah, now we're "getting warmer"--thank you for posting this photo, Chris! That NACA one looks similar to (and may have been an early version of) a similar 4-finned, wingless NACA ramjet test vehicle that was carried aloft by an F-82 Twin Mustang and air-launched over the Wallops Island test range (the one I remember lacked a tapered boat-tail at the rear).

The NACA solid-fuel ramjet test vehicle I saw photos of (which looked more like the Teros) had three delta fins and was launched at Wallops Island atop a surplus rocket motor (a Recruit, I believe). The photos and descriptive text on these and many other ramjet (and rocket) vehicles are in James Shortal's book "A New Dimension" (it has a sub-title that has "Wallops Island" in it, but I can't remember how it goes). Mark Bundick would know, as he has a copy of the book.

[Chris_Timm]

James Shortal's book "A New Dimension"

I have that book.
There is a pic on page 263 which appears to match your search.
May 22, 1952.
Also another pic on page 264 which look like a similar vehicle.
Mar 23, 1955.
Both were Deacon-boosted.

[blackshire]

I have that book.
There is a pic on page 263 which appears to match your search.
May 22, 1952.
Also another pic on page 264 which look like a similar vehicle.
Mar 23, 1955.
Both were Deacon-boosted.Those look even more like the Teros kit--just whack off the fin corners at an inward-slanting angle! There is a picture of a three-finned version (it might be a variant of the same ramjet vehicle) on a booster rocket elsewhere in the book, but I like the 4-finned ones better. Yep, the Deacon was Wallops' favorite motor for these test vehicles because they were plentiful and cheap (and they could--and did--cluster them when more thrust was needed).

[Rocketflyer]

Talos/Teros... I get it :D


OK Scott., it's yours. :D

[luke strawwalker]

I built a prototype a long time ago but it needed so much nose weight to make it stable I never did fly it.


That one would be a good candidate to mount the forward fins on pivoting axles to minimize their impact on CP, which would obviate the need for massive amounts of noseweight to make it stable....

Cool rocket! OL JR :)

[blackshire]

That one would be a good candidate to mount the forward fins on pivoting axles to minimize their impact on CP, which would obviate the need for massive amounts of noseweight to make it stable....

Cool rocket! OL JR :)Indeed! A Talos or Vandal scale model with a long-burning ducted rocket motor (an FSI F7 or an AeroTech equivalent) in the ramjet sustainer would also make a very "sporty" R/C model, although I'm afraid my reflexes wouldn't be up to steering it!

[Bluegrass Rocket]

Thought I'd post this here about the Teros. I've always liked the Teros and have even made a square tube version for my NewWay Space Models. So, I was going through some old Estes MRN (Model Rocket News) and stumbled across a photo of the "New" Estes Green Line. This was before Estes just called them Cold Power Convertibles. In the photo was a very different version of the Teros. In any photo after this is the Teros we are all familiar with. I found this to be very interesting. Just thought I'd share.

[blackshire]

Thought I'd post this here about the Teros. I've always liked the Teros and have even made a square tube version for my NewWay Space Models. So, I was going through some old Estes MRN (Model Rocket News) and stumbled across a photo of the "New" Estes Green Line. This was before Estes just called them Cold Power Convertibles. In the photo was a very different version of the Teros. In any photo after this is the Teros we are all familiar with. I found this to be very interesting. Just thought I'd share.Thank You! Wow--I never knew that a two-stage (or two-stage looking) version of the Teros existed. I wonder if it was Vashon or Estes that originally produced that particular model? Since it was apparently never released (by either company), Estes could release that version today (for 18 mm BP motors) as a new kit that really would be--for all intents and purposes--a new one.

[blackshire]

Also, here (see: http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app1/sam-a-1.html ) is the "GAP" test missile that I'd conjectured (in the initial posting of this thread) might have inspired the Teros kit. It was the Boeing SAM-A-1 GAPA, and its configuration and paint scheme were reminiscent of those of the Teros (actually, it's the other way around, chronologically speaking).

[blackshire]

The Estes Wasp (a scale-like three-finned, ramjet nose cone-equipped model) looked very much like the three-finned, rocket-boosted, solid-fuel ramjet test vehicles that were flown at Wallops Island, Virginia in the 1950s (and maybe even in the latter half of the 1940s); they were shown and described in Shortal's book about the Wallops facility. ALSO:

The "D"-powered Wasp looked like an up-scaled (BT-55 size), three-finned version of the BT-50 size ("1/2A" - "C" powered), four-finned Teros (you can compare the two "ramjet-nosed" models *here* http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes84/84est56.html and *here* http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/78est022.html ).

I hope this information will be helpful.