Old rockets on eBay

[RocketBoy 32]

I've been trying in vain to purchase a few of the older rockets whose plans aren't available anywhere on the web. My plan is to scan the plans and post them so we all have access to the wonderful rockets of our youth.

The thing is, I've never won any of these auctions. Not even one.

I'd really like to share these rockets but I can't. I have a hard time believing that we are in any kind of an economic crunch when anybody has 155 or 180 dollars to spend on an old Centuri kit. I don't get it.

So here's a little request to those of you who may know or who may be one of those people with way too much money on your hands.

PISS OFF AND STOP SCREWING THINGS UP FOR THE REST OF US!

Let the little people enjoy their bags of cardboard and balsa and stop making everything such a horrible mess by paying ridiculous amounts of money for something so simple. You've all managed to destroy the possibility that anyone who isn't filthy stinking rich or up to his eyeballs in credit card debt can enjoy the kits of yesteryear. I only need access to ONE each of the kits I'm looking for and then EVERYONE can have one.

I guess that's too much to ask.

[tbzep]

I feel your pain.

[MarkB.]

RocketBoy,

I too feel your pain. I do not admit to being on of those over-funded individuals but I do revel in the fact that I'm much better funded than I was when I was 12. I have a max on eBay and I do not get involved in bidding wars. If my max is exceeded, then I wait till next time.

Out of curiousity, what are you looking for? Give us a list and perhaps we can ease your pain.

[ghrocketman]

While the overall economy is down and unemployment is relatively high at 10%, there are some that are still doing relatively well.
Actually prices are DOWN on some kits and I have to believe it is the economy.
If the economy was UP, I doubt we would see original K29 Saturn 1B's going for less than $300.

[mojo1986]

I've been trying in vain to purchase a few of the older rockets whose plans aren't available anywhere on the web. My plan is to scan the plans and post them so we all have access to the wonderful rockets of our youth.

The thing is, I've never won any of these auctions. Not even one.

I'd really like to share these rockets but I can't. I have a hard time believing that we are in any kind of an economic crunch when anybody has 155 or 180 dollars to spend on an old Centuri kit. I don't get it.

So here's a little request to those of you who may know or who may be one of those people with way too much money on your hands.

PISS OFF AND STOP SCREWING THINGS UP FOR THE REST OF US!

Let the little people enjoy their bags of cardboard and balsa and stop making everything such a horrible mess by paying ridiculous amounts of money for something so simple. You've all managed to destroy the possibility that anyone who isn't filthy stinking rich or up to his eyeballs in credit card debt can enjoy the kits of yesteryear. I only need access to ONE each of the kits I'm looking for and then EVERYONE can have one.

I guess that's too much to ask.

I have a bunch of older plans, but not sure if I have any that you are looking for................if you post a list perhaps folks here could help.

Joe

[DeanHFox]

Like some others here, I have an extensive fleet, and have shared my parts, plans, and decals to other fliers and vendors for cloning purposes.

I'd be happy to share scans/etc. or point you to vendors to help you fill out your fleet, as well --- can you provide specifics of what you're missing?

If your aim is to recreate classics of old, I can't think of a better (and much cheaper!) way of accomplishing that goal. Forget eBay unless you have to have an original. :)

[RocketBoy 32]

I don't have to own the original at all. My only goal is to fill in the holes here on Rocketshoppe and JimZ as best I can.

[jharding58]

If it is Estes, try here

http://estesplans.larocketryforum.com/

[RocketBoy 32]

If anyone has a Centuri Chuter 2 they'd be willing to scan I'd appreciate it. I tried to get one on eBay and it ended up selling for 187.50. Also the Recruiter Space Probe plans would be nice to have. That one sold for 177.50. Both of them sold to the same jerk that outbid me on both nosecone auctions on eBay last night in the last 5 seconds of the auction and ended up paying 140 some odd dollars for a bunch of nosecones worth maybe half that much.

[Chas Russell]

If you go to www.semroc.com and click on "The Classics" they do have a link to the Chuter Two plans. The plans do not have any part numbers though. There is the scan for the fins and SEMROC offers laser-cut fins FCE-KC16 for $2. Www.ninfinger.org has scans of Centuri catalogs.
SEMROC also offers their retro-repro version of the Recruiter Space Probe (KV-22) for $18.50.

Chas

[Earl]

If anyone has a Centuri Chuter 2 they'd be willing to scan I'd appreciate it. I tried to get one on eBay and it ended up selling for 187.50. Also the Recruiter Space Probe plans would be nice to have. That one sold for 177.50. Both of them sold to the same jerk that outbid me on both nosecone auctions on eBay last night in the last 5 seconds of the auction and ended up paying 140 some odd dollars for a bunch of nosecones worth maybe half that much.


I too bid on both of those, and I bid very high and was still beat. In defense of those two kits and their high final bids, those were early Centuri packaging (like pre- '68 or '69), and rarely come up on ebay. They were gonna go for high prices, guaranteed. I've seen both those go for more than that.

Painful as it may be from an acquisition standpoint, the market is what it is. If people are willing to pay those prices, then those prices are what you have to beat to get what you want.

Somewhat the flip side of that is saying people should only be able to earn just so much money in their profession. Certainly, NO one would propose that, unless your name is Obama and you happen to be President of the United States.

A person should be allowed to earn what their talents will (legally) earn. Likewise, a person should be allowed to use those earned resources as they (again, legally) see fit.

Earl

[RocketBoy 32]

I understand all of that Earl. My initial post was made when I was pretty frustrated and annoyed. I know the market works that way, it just sucks that it does. Just because someone has 187 dollars to spend on a kit doesn't mean that it is worth that much. I also understand that nobody else knows my intents when I bid on something either. It would be wonderful just for once, to have a hobby that was affordable for people who don't have 187 bucks or in this case 365 dollars plus shipping for 2 older rocket kits. The people who bid so much for those older kits will probably never build them or even open them. They'll be tucked away in a collection in someone's closet and lost to the rest of us. I love my fellow rocketeers and just want to share the older kits and plans with them. Some of those kits have never been listed for sale on eBay or elsewhere as far as I know. Some may be lost to time forever and that would be a sad thing.
It would be nice if we could somehow form a buyer's coalition here on Rocketshoppe that could pool money from each person willing to donate a small amount of money to win the auction with the agreement that the plans and decals would be scanned and posted by a certain date for all to share. And yes, before anyone answers me seriously, I know I'm naive if I think that'll ever happen. So I'll just keep doing what I have been. If Rocketshoppe doesn't update soon I'm going to volunteer to do it for them. That would help I think. If anyone else has any ideas about how we can open the flow of rocket plans and information on the web please drop me a line.Thanks a lot to the above posters who have made suggestions.

[wickball]

A few years back, there was someone buying every old Estes catalog that came up for bid, regardless of the price. I always wanted a 1966 catalog from my childhood, but I knew as long as that guy was out there I didn't have a chance. Some of you here may know who I'm talking about. I've often wondered why he needed all of these old catalogs, many copies of the same one.
Somehow, a good friend of mine managed to get me one.

wick

[Earl]

The thread originator Rocketboy32 brings up a good point, that being one of vintage plan updates to Ye Olde Rocket Plans. Seems as I recall the last update date is noted as sometime in July of 2008.

Is this accurate? Am I reading that wrong?? If so, is there a particular reason as to why no new vintage plans have been added since 2008? Is it lack of resources to make the posts, or is it lack of scanned plans? Both??

I'm asking in pretty much total ignorance here, but I think I've probably got several plans that I could scan and 'donate' which could be added to the collection there.

Also, to the thread originator, please let us know what rockets/plans you may be looking for (as several others have suggested); we may be able to help you.

BTW, I did not really intend for my response above to sound quite as 'blunt' as it did (having gone back and re-read it). I think we have all been, at one time or the other, in the same shoes and feel the same as you currently do. It IS frustrating to try to get some of those kits and get beat out time and time again. It really is hard to believe at times the prices some of these kits go for now. Back in the day, who knew?! I mean, I thought $15 or so for a Centuri 1/45 Little Joe II was super-expensive back in the day (waaaaay above my budget as kid, which is why I never was able to obtain one then).

But now, they routinely go for over $300, and the last one I bought (the second of the two I own....one to build and one to keep) cost about $360, but it was pristine and was one of the earlier 1/45 Little Joe II's, back when they still featured balsa bulkheads instead of the latter foam-core cardboard bulkheads.

Is it crazy to pay that much for a rocket kit? Maybe. But, it has value to me (which is probably the most important point); the value of the kit does NOT drop to zero once it is bought (i.e., I CAN re-sell it if I so chose and hopefully recoup most, if not all, my original purchase price); and it satisfied a dream of several decades to own that particular rocket and to maybe (in a small way) feel like one has finally risen above some level of 'poverty' that kept one from owning certain things as a kid.

I beleive many can relate numerous stories of various rockets and such that were simply beyond our monetary reach as children, and now that we are adults with at least some level of discretionary income, we are finally making some of those old dreams come true. Maybe sounds a bit corny, but for me, that's pretty much the full-blown truth.

Anyway....if someone can provide some insight on how we might can start adding additional plans back to the Ye Olde collection, please let me know.

Thanks,

Earl

[Bill]

I understand all of that Earl. My initial post was made when I was pretty frustrated and annoyed. I know the market works that way, it just sucks that it does. Just because someone has 187 dollars to spend on a kit doesn't mean that it is worth that much. I also understand that nobody else knows my intents when I bid on something either.

Think about it from the seller's point of view. If there was no expectation of getting a decent price for an old kit, why put up with all of the bullcrap (ebay fees and policies, potential deadbeats, dealing with paypal) of listing it? Why not just build it, give it to a nephew, sell it at a garage sale for a buck, donate it to the Salvation Army or just toss it in the trash?



It would be wonderful just for once, to have a hobby that was affordable for people who don't have 187 bucks or in this case 365 dollars plus shipping for 2 older rocket kits. The people who bid so much for those older kits will probably never build them or even open them. They'll be tucked away in a collection in someone's closet and lost to the rest of us.

one url: www.semroc.com You can build a clone of most kits for no more than 25 dollars and not have to worry about parts missing or damaged.


Bill

[Ltvscout]

The thread originator Rocketboy32 brings up a good point, that being one of vintage plan updates to Ye Olde Rocket Plans. Seems as I recall the last update date is noted as sometime in July of 2008.

Is this accurate? Am I reading that wrong?? If so, is there a particular reason as to why no new vintage plans have been added since 2008? Is it lack of resources to make the posts, or is it lack of scanned plans? Both?
The problem is not lack of plans to post, I have plenty in the queue. Nor is it lack of interest. I just have not had the time to do it. It is still something I plan on doing and will do (updating the site), I just can't give a timeframe.

[Shreadvector]

The problem is not lack of plans to post, I have plenty in the queue. Nor is it lack of interest. I just have not had the time to do it. It is still something I plan on doing and will do (updating the site), I just can't give a timeframe.

If the folks who need that update ASAP were to mail you some cash, would that help?

:D ;)

[Ltvscout]

If the folks who need that update ASAP were to mail you some cash, would that help?
:chuckle: Money talks!

Seriously, it's something that I will be doing, it's just life has gotten in the way these past few years.

[RocketBoy 32]

Well, I'd like to see somebody dig these Estes gems up if at all possible:

Sea Strike D - Decals
Sandpiper - Fin templates and decals
Cajun - Fin templates and decals
Super Nova Payloader - Fin templates
Mini Brute Hornet - Fin templates and decals
Apache 2 - Fin templates

The fin patterns and decals for the Centuri
F-15 Eagle would be a real find too.

[RocketBoy 32]

:chuckle: Money talks!

Seriously, it's something that I will be doing, it's just life has gotten in the way these past few years.

Is there ANYTHING I can do or that we as a community can do to help you update the site? I'd gladly volunteer my time. I'd be willing to do just about anything to get those plans posted since it's been going on 2 1/2 years since the last update.

[CPMcGraw]

Well, I'd like to see somebody dig these Estes gems up if at all possible:

Sea Strike D - Decals
Sandpiper - Fin templates and decals
Cajun - Fin templates and decals
Super Nova Payloader - Fin templates
Mini Brute Hornet - Fin templates and decals
Apache 2 - Fin templates

The fin patterns and decals for the Centuri
F-15 Eagle would be a real find too.

Apache 2 is the same kit as the Centuri Tiger Streak, #5357. There is a fin outline posted with that scan set on Ye Olde Rocket Plans
(http://plans.rocketshoppe.com/centuri/cen5357/cen5357.htm)

Are you talking about the Super Nova Payloader, #2155, or the Super Nova, #2011? If the former, it's a plastic fin and I may have one somewhere to measure. If it's the latter, it's literally just two sets of Alpha fins.

For the Mini Brute Hornet, #804, check the outlines posted below. This scan was taken from the instruction sheet and enlarged to match a 3" wide sheet of balsa. It's surprising how many of these micro-images were accurate - just tiny!

For the Cajun, #2028, same notation as the MB Hornet. This is scaled to a 4" x 12" sheet of balsa.

[CPMcGraw]

Here's a laser-cutting pattern for the Cajun #2028 fins, if the original sheet was 4" x 12" x 3/32". Someone with an original kit can measure against these patterns to see if I came close.

[Bill]

Is there ANYTHING I can do or that we as a community can do to help you update the site? I'd gladly volunteer my time. I'd be willing to do just about anything to get those plans posted since it's been going on 2 1/2 years since the last update.


Yes - start your own plans site. Didn't Ye Olde Rocket Plans start because JimZ was slow with site updates?


Bill

[Cohetero-negro]

Well, I'd like to see somebody dig these Estes gems up if at all possible:

Sea Strike D - Decals
Sandpiper - Fin templates and decals
Cajun - Fin templates and decals
Super Nova Payloader - Fin templates
Mini Brute Hornet - Fin templates and decals
Apache 2 - Fin templates

The fin patterns and decals for the Centuri
F-15 Eagle would be a real find too.


Rocketboy,

All those items are available and as someone has noted, they even exist in other forms; many Centuri kits were ported over to Estes variants.

As for the really really old stuff, bid higher.

Yes I realize that is a flippant answer, but that is what you have to do sometimes.

Any Centuri kit with a stapled white or blue/red/white header card comes from 1962 - ~1965. In the 1965 range, Centuri started switching to the checkerboard pattern face cards with the rolled mylar bag stapled to it at the top. Those pre-65 kits were few in the making (Lee started Centuri in his garage) and are pricey.

On the subject of price, there were SEVERAL Aurora Missile kits that fetched into the $600+ range ... I wanted them, but not THAT bad, and I didn't get angry at the person who won them ... I was proud of the fact that there are those like you and I who value this old rocket stuff.

Some people value their cars ... I don't care, I could go out tomorrow and buy a BMW or a Benz ... I have the high credit score and I can place a nice chunk of change down for a down payment ... but I don't value cars as much as I do a flown artifact into space or returned from the moon.

E.g. One of the auction galleries that I buy my space stuff had an auction for a very impressive painting of Ed White and his EVA from Gemini IV. It was the inspiration for a famous mural that was done and sits down in a bank in Texas. After my bids of $25,000.00 was eclipsed, I stopped... the painting finally ended at $70,000.00 and if I had the disposable income, I would have spent that for it. Its just a matter of what you have and what you are willing to pay. Would you call me a jerk just because I could afford something? Trust me I am a jerk for other reasons, and its not because I buy things ;)

OH, if I HAD won at $25,000.00 I would have taken out a loan and used some items that I have as collateral ... I also have an affinity for Salvidor Dali!!! :)

Don't get angry at people who win stuff, be HAPPY for them because it shows you that they are willing to pony up and pay from their hearts to their wallets for items. Should you ever run across a garage sell where old kits are being sold for $0.50, then you win because you didn't have to pay hundreds for the same or similar item. Oh, and realize that 20% - 30% of the final bid on any popular item will be driven by emotion, and NOT common sense!

Try collecting plastic model kits of space subjects... well based on what the Thor IRBM and Thor Lunar Prob fetched you might want to not go there, but there are other lower end collectibles to buy. And just think, some of the stuff in the dollar bin today, will in 30 - 40 years be worth a heck of a lot more ... just have to have a good eye :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220731423310&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I have some old kits that are similar to those, when I bought them people were telling me that I was crazy ... they were right, but I am glad I have something that brings me joy ... the world is a VERY cold and harsh place, and anything that can take me into my own reality I go for; but no drugs!

You think those Centuri kits went for too much ... OMG where are the ebay bidders: fishtit, adirondacktrains, snoop-dog, txt-storm and a few others from years back. Those guys wouldn't let a K kit or Centuri kit go for anything less than $225.00... Dan Wolfe is another high bidder that comes to mind.

Trust me, the hobby is being preserved by some who value what the kit represents more than what can be achieved from an on-line auction.

Did you know that Model Rocketry is the reason I was able to ESCAPE the ghetto? No really. While people where dying around me ( I was in a 'Blood' neighborhood and 'Crypts' would do drive-byes, vice-versa). I lost my God Cousin Anthony Hill (19) and one of my play friend's brothers due to gang violence. I would be beat up at school because I was a nerd and would carry around model rocket catalogs and read them; not the small TV guide Estes ones, but the news paper sized centuri ones. My mother would come into my room and destroy my built models because she understood what they meant to me ... you see some mommies and daddies are to be forgotten... I came from a VERY abusive/sick home where I would sit and dream of building a rocket big enough where I could get in it and blast off to outer-space and never come back... the hobby means Far far far more to me than an ebay auction like most of the phony model rocketeers pass themselves off to be.

Rocketry taught me simple circuits, what a resistor is, a battery , a capacitor, a soldering iron, a drill, a lathe, air brush, sanding block, trigonometry for determining altitude, a protractor, impulse, specific impulse, equations of motion, calculus ... the UNIVERSE.

So please understand there are those of us who are not out to embarrass or insult you because we place our priorities in a different area than you.

There are some on there that have $50,000.00 cars. Should I hate them and call them jerks because they like fine cars? There are people on here that own their own private aircraft. Should I call them jerks because they have a Piper, Cessna, Beechcraft and I don't? No, I applaud them for seeing value in the same things that I enjoy :)

I love CAPITALISM (Private Ownership), and as Earl pointed out in a previous message, and I paraphrase, 'As long as the person acquires and spends their $$$ with honest intent, then why should I stand in their way?.

I have a box full of old Centuri plans. Nothing too crazy, but if you need Centuri Honest john, Centuar, Payloaded 2, you just ask me, and I will send. I won't open sealed rockets because they mean something to me. When I was a kid, I didn't have much... a few Christmases I received NOTHING; I kid you not, and swear upon my eternal soul, there were times I received NOTHING. At one point I would receive rocketry items from my richer friends who would let me watch or recover rockets for them. You ever have a neighbor come over to you and say, "Jonathan you are not stupid, you keep following your dreams" - Mr. Hawkin the gentleman who lived across the street; you see he would hear my mother cussing me out, calling me names, and making my early life on planet Earth HELL.

I'm rambling ... OK point is, for some of us, the hobby the collecting is far far FAR more important than the money... trust me :) And what is money? Answer: A mechanism to get what you need or want.

Jonathan

[pterodactyl]

It's because of posts like these and the people that populate this forum that I visit so frequently. Thanks for sharing your story and thoughts.

[dlazarus6660]

RocketBoy 32,

The Centuri F-15 Eagle is available on another forum. I'll post here later when I find it again.
I think I downloaded the parts too. I'll check.

Daniel

Update! I found it in Yahoo groups.

Try this first.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OldRockets/files/

Direct Link:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8GVNTZNyaH5py88vKEqyN8HaknSBWT2XDA3qxkxhDU8yJ1ervfQ98JWDzbuDhJ4yhNcrJJI91j1My8Wvxx8m4wXuDUd7raX5LQ/cent5318%20-%20F-15%20Eagle%20B.pdf

[RocketBoy 32]

Thanks a lot everyone. Thanks to you too Jonathan - that's quite a life story you have there.