Mini-HJ alt. paint schemes!

[blackshire]

Hello All,

I just came across several photographs of alternate paint schemes for the Estes Mini Honest John (see: www.postwarv2.com/honestJohn/photos/photos.html *and* the sample photographs attached below!). Also, the main web site (see: www.postwarv2.com/moreRockets.html ) has photographs and specifications for numerous missiles and sounding rockets.

I hope this material will be useful.

[jeffyjeep]

Cool!....and they can be done without decals----just black adhesive film. Hmmmmmmmm.

[chrism]

Thanks Jason for the info. The other schemes make a more colorful alternative to Olive Drab.

[blackshire]

You're both most welcome! In the immortal words of Snoopy (after he dug up Linus' blanket after Lucy buried it to break Linus of his security blanket "crutch," after which Linus hugged Snoopy almost to the point of choking him, and thanked him profusely): "Every now and then I feel that my existence is justified." :-) Also:

The M31 Honest John (in the other photographs on that web page) also used the simple two-color (red-and-white) paint scheme that is shown on an M50 Honest John in the left-most attached photograph above. That basic but attractive paint job could be an "entry-level" masked paint scheme for beginning scale competitors.

[jharding58]

I think this is the first connection to be made between what I assumed was a olive and white launch to a red and white round. Although the links point to a pretty grand assortment of red/white, olive/white, olive/white/red schemes. The roll patterns seem to be similar to the LJII LES motor markings constituted of five differing stripe patterns.

[blackshire]

I think this is the first connection to be made between what I assumed was a olive and white launch to a red and white round. Although the links point to a pretty grand assortment of red/white, olive/white, olive/white/red schemes. The roll patterns seem to be similar to the LJII LES motor markings constituted of five differing stripe patterns.That roll pattern (white with black forward & rear circumferential bands, plus black longitudinal lines and "dashes" that vary on each quadrant) has been used on more missiles and sounding rockets (particularly ones that were/are flown at White Sands) than I can count. It was even used at the Cape on the early test versions of the Blue Scout, Minuteman, and Titan IIIC (on its twin Stage 0 solid motors) vehicles. At White Sands, the Athena (which was often launched from Green River, Utah to White Sands), Little John (both the delta-finned test version and the rectangular-finned operational version), Honest John, Sergeant, Lance, Patriot, and many, many others have used that roll pattern. Its varying quadrants make it much easier to determine which side of the vehicle was facing each tracking camera at a given instant, which facilitates post-flight analysis of the vehicle's roll behavior in flight.

[jharding58]

With thanks to Blackshire.

[gpoehlein]

Does anyone have a source for the full stripe style roll pattern? In other words, a body tube wrap that lays them all out with the proper sequence, spacing and line thickness? This could be a great sport scale project with enough documentation!

[blackshire]

With thanks to Blackshire.You're most welcome! Just looking at your well-executed M-50 Honest John model makes me weary--I don't have the endurance to sand faceted airfoil sections into fins anymore! Just one thing--a closeup (on the launcher) photograph of such an M-50 Honest John test round (see the first-listed of the three scale data sources listed below) shows the paint finish to be flat rather than gloss. Also:

To answer gpoehlein's question about the "White Sands-style" roll pattern, there are at least three scale data sources (listed below) that allow this roll pattern to be laid out as a body wrap (although I have not seen one of the three personally, I'm almost certain that it depicts this roll pattern as well). Here they are:

[1] Peter Alway's "14 U.S. Army Missiles of the Cold War" is available from NARTS (NAR Technical Services, see: https://blastzone.com/nar/narts/store.asp?groupid=1080035015601 ). It contains four drawings of an M-50 Honest John with the "White Sands-style" roll pattern, as seen from four sides (90 degrees apart), as well as a closeup (on the launcher) photograph of an M-50 Honest John with this roll pattern. It also includes four similar (views 90 degrees apart) drawings of an M-51 (MGR-3A) Little John (the Honest John's "little brother") that had the "White Sands-style" roll pattern. The arrangements of the black bands, lines, and "dashes" are the same on both rockets.

[2] "Rockets of the World: 4th Edition" by Peter Alway is also available from NARTS (see: https://blastzone.com/nar/narts/store.asp?groupid=1080035015601 ). It includes a section on the Titan IIIC which contains drawings of the early test version, the one that had the "White Sands-style" roll pattern on its two Stage 0 solid rocket motors.

[3] The third one (which I have not seen) is a scale data pack for the Titan IIIC, which is also available from NARTS (at the bottom of this page: https://blastzone.com/nar/narts/store.asp?groupid=92400111757284 ). Although it is described as a "two-page blueprint dimensioned for a 1/60th scale display model," it likely depicts the early test version that had the roll pattern on the Stage 0 solid rocket motors (NARTS could confirm or correct this).

I hope this information will be useful.

[blackshire]

Speaking of the Little John, here is scale data on the XM-47 version (the delta-finned test version: www.postwarv2.com/littleJohn/littleJohn.html , www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/r-3.html , and www.postwarv2.com/littleJohn/photos.html ). The Little John rounds shown on these web pages have several different paint schemes, including the "White Sands-style" roll pattern. Also:

Little John scale models could use either the BT-5 Gnome/Quark plastic nose cones or the BT-20 Wizard/Viking plastic nose cones (which, being 4:1 tangent ogives, are the correct scale lengths for their respective sizes). Peter Alway's "14 U.S. Army Missiles of the Cold War," which is available from NARTS (NAR Technical Services, see: https://blastzone.com/nar/narts/store.asp?groupid=1080035015601 ), has dimensioned drawings and paint scheme drawings of the Little John (both the XM-47 and M-51 variants).

I hope this information will be useful.

[jharding58]

The Peanut Little Joe II documentation by George Gassaway (?) shows the unwrapped pattern as applied to the LES motor casing on the LJII. It is identical to the pattern on the HJ. I'll see if I can find the pdf when I return home.

In the case of the A-001 launch the pattern matches closely the HJ pattern. The omission of the two short bars was required by the presence of the cable tunnel on the LES motor casing. Also the Little Joe II maintained a consisten thickness in the band and stripes, whereas the Honest John seems to have the bands being 1/2 the width of the bars

[stefanj]

Another thank-you.

When I was in Fifth Grade, maybe 1973, I bought a Centuri Honest John. I did a crap job on it. Never flew it, from what I remember. But the bulbous nose cone was one of the artifacts of my early rocketry years that survived the decades.

I recently bought parts to recreate the body and fins. Right now it's waiting for me to sand off the Fill n Finish, and maybe add the spin thrusters.

The red, white, and black bar paint job looks like just the thing to decorate it.

[gpoehlein]

Well given the data presented here and from my Rockets of the World, I've created a body tube wrap for the BT-50 Mini Honest John. The wrap is pretty close but may have to be tweaked a bit to fit properly on the BT-50 without a gap or overlap.But it should also be the right length as well.

[hcmbanjo]

Thanks Greg,
You've just saved me a lot of time!
In the next few days, I was going to draw up this White Sands paint pattern.
I appreciate the time you took to put it together.

[gpoehlein]

Thanks Greg,
You've just saved me a lot of time!
In the next few days, I was going to draw up this White Sands paint pattern.
I appreciate the time you took to put it together.

No problem, Chris - Time is something I definitely have a lot of right now (although I haven't really felt like building or designing up to now - the shoulder IS coming along nicely, so I will probably get back to building/designing in the next day or so). Th pattern was created in Illustrator 5 and ported out in PDF, so if you need to adjust it a bit for length or circumference, you should be able to open it in any graphics program that opens PDF files for edit.

Greg

[jharding58]

The final version.

[JumpJet]

Does anyone have a source for the full stripe style roll pattern?

When I designed this model I originally was going to do the test round version but felt the one piece decal would get damaged on the model too easily so I went with the standard Army Green color.

I posted this PDF version some time ago. Make sure to print it out to full size.
I have included a jpg of the image as well.


John Boren
Estes R&D

[jharding58]

Hey John,
Would there be any chance of adding the bands and stripe segments as individual elements? It isn't a huge decals as they go, and the current crop of Estes decals paper seems pretty robust. Not sure how fast this kit sells but perhaps added to a subsequent run? For us I think cutting sections of decals stripe is working quite well.

[JumpJet]

Would there be any chance of adding the bands and stripe segments as individual elements?


Most likely this isn't going to happen in a kit.

What you could do is use this image to cut out a piece of Frisket Film. Apply the film to the model, Paint the black parts, remove the film and then you don't have any decals to worry about.


John Boren

[blackshire]

Most likely this isn't going to happen in a kit.

What you could do is use this image to cut out a piece of Frisket Film. Apply the film to the model, Paint the black parts, remove the film and then you don't have any decals to worry about.


John BorenSince the first production run of the Mini Honest John included the 'nervous lawyer-inspired' "U.S. MILITARY" decals instead of the correct "U.S. ARMY" decals, why not introduce a customizable "U.S. ARMY" & "White Sands"-style roll pattern decal set (preferably water-transfer) into subsequent production runs of this kit? Not only would this make the Mini Honest John an even more interesting and popular scale kit, it would also make the first-run kits with the "U.S. MILITARY" decals very collectible classic kits (for the same reason that incorrectly-printed stamps and mis-struck coins are collectible).

[hcmbanjo]

I just finished up my Mini Honest John.
Rather than mask the roll pattern, I printed out the decal pattern John Boren posted for a positioning template.
Pieces were cut from a roll of Contact Paper blackboard covering.

The build thread is here:
http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search/label/Honest%20John

It's still due for a dull clearcoat. Add some clay weight in the nose and it'll ready to fly.

[blackshire]

Nicely done! While John Boren said that the test round decals probably won't make it into the Mini Honest John kit, maybe the test round roll pattern that he posted earlier in this thread could also be put up on the Estes web site, on a page that could be titled "Estes Scale Kit Enhancements" or something similar?

[foamy]

Nice work—the fin shaping and paint job make this one a little beauty. Let us know how it flies.