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-   -   Peel 'n stick decal retention? (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=17690)

blackshire 01-12-2019 01:45 AM

Peel 'n stick decal retention?
 
Hello All,

Has anyone found a way of ensuring that the Estes peel 'n stick decals (like those in the Gnome and Yankee kits) will stay on? (In my experience, they have a limited "adhesion life," after which they begin to de-bond from the rocket.) Is there any sort of surface preparation, and/or perhaps a spray-on product (clear artist's fixative spray, maybe?) that makes such decals stick? I prefer water-transfer decals, of course, but many kits don't come with those.

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help! (This would be helpful to many others as well.)

chrism 01-12-2019 07:57 AM

I have had the same problem with the stickers on several Quest kits as well. You an try using some old fashioned Elmer's white glue to stick them back down. If your adventurous, you can make a copy of the stickers on decal film that you can print off of your printer and apply them like any water-slide decal. Testors has a decal making set.

stefanj 01-12-2019 09:33 AM

Heh-heh.

Last year I had the darndest time trying to peel OFF some stickers on a Estes EAC Viper.

Proper prep might help:

Smooth finish, aided and abetted with wet sanding and compounding.

Clean surface with alcohol to remove any dust, etc.

Let dry and polish with clean paper towel / tissue.

After applying sticker, burnish thoroughly, all-around, with a coffee stirrer or what-not.

sandman 01-12-2019 09:50 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Hello All,

Has anyone found a way of ensuring that the Estes peel 'n stick decals (like those in the Gnome and Yankee kits) will stay on? (In my experience, they have a limited "adhesion life," after which they begin to de-bond from the rocket.) Is there any sort of surface preparation, and/or perhaps a spray-on product (clear artist's fixative spray, maybe?) that makes such decals stick? I prefer water-transfer decals, of course, but many kits don't come with those.

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help! (This would be helpful to many others as well.)


Try Aleen's Tacky glue instead of white glue. The stuff is really cheap and drys clear.

LeeR 01-12-2019 11:47 AM

blackshire,

How about just a clear coat to seal them? I use Krylon UV-Resistant Acrylic Clear over my waterslides. Iíve not tried it over peel Ďní stick decals (I just donít use them, with the exception of the Alpha VI I got at NARAM).

The only stick-on decals I use are vinyl from Stickershock. Those things bond like crazy. I cannot imagine them ever peeling up.

blackshire 01-15-2019 04:43 AM

I thank you all very much for your suggestions! I'm helping a British fellow who is just starting in model rocketry, and hints & tricks for ensuring adhesion of this common type of decal will prevent frustration (and in club, school, and youth group model rocketry activities, too).
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrism
I have had the same problem with the stickers on several Quest kits as well. You an try using some old fashioned Elmer's white glue to stick them back down. If your adventurous, you can make a copy of the stickers on decal film that you can print off of your printer and apply them like any water-slide decal. Testors has a decal making set.
Hmmm...the Testors decal making set sounds like the print-on decal film (it's available with both clear and white backgrounds) that Bare-Metal Foil and others sell: http://www.google.com/search?source...i10.vd5nbxz-VF4 ). Having some old MPC water-transfer decal sheets that I want to duplicate rather than expend, trying the decal film has been on my "to-do" list for a white, and:

Thank you for reminding me about the Quest kits, which also use peel 'n apply decals. I hadn't thought of white glue (I'll try Elmer's and Aleen's Tacky, with scrap peel 'n apply decal material).
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
Heh-heh.

Last year I had the darndest time trying to peel OFF some stickers on a Estes EAC Viper.

Proper prep might help:

Smooth finish, aided and abetted with wet sanding and compounding.

Clean surface with alcohol to remove any dust, etc.

Let dry and polish with clean paper towel / tissue.

After applying sticker, burnish thoroughly, all-around, with a coffee stirrer or what-not.
If I may return the favor: My mother once read (and when my father tried it, it worked like a charm) that *mayonnaise*, of all things, would de-bond self-adhesive labels from plastic containers such as Cool-Whip tubs (for re-purposing them). "Your Mileage May Vary" for removing self-adhesive decals from glassine or painted body tubes, of course, but it might work just as well with them. Good surface preparation--for getting good decal bonds--had occurred to me as well (cleaning it well, and I'm glad that I wasn't alone in thinking of sanding the bonding surface very "finely," to give the decal adhesive more to "grab onto").
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman
Try Aleen's Tacky glue instead of white glue. The stuff is really cheap and drys clear.
Thank you--I've had good results with it for regular bonding purposes. It does dry clear, as you mentioned (and it even takes paint well).
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
blackshire,

How about just a clear coat to seal them? I use Krylon UV-Resistant Acrylic Clear over my waterslides. Iíve not tried it over peel Ďní stick decals (I just donít use them, with the exception of the Alpha VI I got at NARAM).

The only stick-on decals I use are vinyl from Stickershock. Those things bond like crazy. I cannot imagine them ever peeling up.
I've wondered about that, too. As long as the clear coat doesn't "fog" the decals (and acrylic shouldn't [even enamel might not, but I suspect that lacquer wouldn't be advisable]), I'm hoping that it would stick the self-adhesive decals down well. When it warms up here (so that I can spray paint outdoors), I'll try it--I think I may even have a spray can of Krylon clear acrylic spray (I can try the surface prep/white glue "bond-down" even before then).

teflonrocketry1 01-15-2019 10:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
*mayonnaise*, of all things, would de-bond self-adhesive labels from plastic containers such as Cool-Whip tubs (for re-purposing them). "Your Mileage May Vary" for removing self-adhesive decals from glassine or painted body tubes, of course, but it might work just as well with them.


I believe it is the vegetable oil in the Mayo that is de-bonding the decals. I have used mineral oil, baby oil, mineral spirits, vegetable oils, lamp oil, WD-40 and Kerosene to remove the adhesive from or de-bond pressure sensitive decals. Mineral oil and mineral spirits (paint thinner) works the best. It is always recommended to check out the use of these liquids in an inconspicuous place on the painted surface before attempting to do this.

In the past I made sticker type decals by printing with my inkjet printers onto a thin transparency film, for example; https://www.officedepot.com/a/produ...t-Transparency/. I then backed the artwork with a clear adhesive transfer tape (2 sided) and cut out the decal. After pealing away the tape liner, I was able to stick the decals down onto a clean surface. The decals were kind of thick but they worked. You could probably use one of the above liquids to remove the old adhesive from under the decals then apply the 2 sided clear tape to reattach them.

I used Scotch brand 465 tape; https://www.3m.com/3M/en_NG/company...94748769&rt=rud
That I purchased from McMaster -Carr: https://www.mcmaster.com/adhesive-transfer-tape

jetlag 01-15-2019 10:11 AM

A heat gun works quite nicely to soften and remove stick-on decals.
Also, I use Pledge clear to coat these decals once applied.
This liquid will practically glue the decals in place.
Never had a problem.

Allen

blackshire 01-15-2019 10:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by teflonrocketry1
I believe it is the vegetable oil in the Mayo that is de-bonding the decals. I have used mineral oil, baby oil, mineral spirits, vegetable oils, lamp oil, WD-40 and Kerosene to remove the adhesive from or de-bond pressure sensitive decals. Mineral oil and mineral spirits (paint thinner) works the best. It is always recommended to check out the use of these liquids in an inconspicuous place on the painted surface before attempting to do this.

In the past I made sticker type decals by printing with my inkjet printers onto a thin transparency film, for example; https://www.officedepot.com/a/produ...t-Transparency/. I then backed the artwork with a clear adhesive transfer tape (2 sided) and cut out the decal. After pealing away the tape liner, I was able to stick the decals down onto a clean surface. The decals were kind of thick but they worked. You could probably use one of the above liquids to remove the old adhesive from under the decals then apply the 2 sided clear tape to reattach them.

I used Scotch brand 465 tape; https://www.3m.com/3M/en_NG/company...94748769&rt=rud
That I purchased from McMaster -Carr: https://www.mcmaster.com/adhesive-transfer-tape
That makes sense (about the vegetable oil in the mayonnaise).

My main interest (and for others rather than myself) is in ensuring that the "stock" peel 'n stick decals will stay in place. If I--personally--go to the effort of scanning and printing the decals, I'd rather make them on water-transfer decal film.

blackshire 01-15-2019 10:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlag
A heat gun works quite nicely to soften and remove stick-on decals.
Also, I use Pledge clear to coat these decals once applied.
This liquid will practically glue the decals in place.
Never had a problem.

Allen
Mmmm...that sounds like what I was seeking--something that would, with a minimum of extra steps, glue the self-adhesive decals down securely. If it goes onto unpainted (just glassine-coated) body tubes as well as painted ones, it might be the ideal solution.


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