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  #31  
Old 03-15-2014, 02:27 PM
slipperyfrog's Avatar
slipperyfrog slipperyfrog is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadebox
Patents protect inventions, not designs. Copyright covers designs.

-- Roger


Good luck with that.
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  #32  
Old 03-15-2014, 04:21 PM
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jadebox jadebox is offline
Roger Smith/JonRocket.com
 
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Location: Oviedo, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperyfrog
Good luck with that.


Okay. But, knowledge tends to trump luck most of the time.

Maybe an analogy will help.

Take the Ford Mustang.

Certain parts and features of the car are patented. The patents cover the inventions that make functions of the car work.

The overall design, the appearance, of a specific model of the Mustang is copyrighted. The copyright protects the artistic expression of the design.

Some distinctive design elements, such as the pony logo are trademarked. Trademarks protect those elements of the design that distinguish it from those made by others.

It's unlikely that any of the work Jay did in the design of the kit would be a unique , non-trivial invention that could be protected by a patent.

Some elements of a kit design might be something that could be trademarked if they distinguish the kits from others. The square bodies of Newway's rockets might be that type of thing.

Copyright, though, is the only form of protection for the overall design of a rocket.

-- Roger
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  #33  
Old 03-15-2014, 04:54 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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This is what I've received back from him. He's quite the master of doublespeak.

Dear wallyum,

The "copyright" means that you cannot do an exact same-size reproduction to
compete with the originator. Why do you think that the instructions are
the same?

-2014_snark


Dear wallyum,

Just to let you know, you can't copyright a rocket, airplane, or car
design. A patent attorney told me you can only get a design patent on
something that is 'ornamental". Any other type of patent is a mechanical
patent, not a design patent.

-2014_snark



My response:

Dear 2014_snark,

Dance around intellectual thievery any way you like. You might sell one or
two of these to someone in the hobby community that isn't aware of how thin
your morals are, but the rocketry community is on to you. As for the
instructions, I have bought and built this kit. I know a copy of the
artwork when I see one.

-wallyum


For the record, if I'd have known that Ebay was going to insert the "Dear 2014_snark" I'd have asked them to change it to "Dear thief". He's anything but dear as far as I'm concerned.
His responses strike me as amazingly similar to those of Slippery Frog.
__________________
Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
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  #34  
Old 03-15-2014, 05:00 PM
slipperyfrog's Avatar
slipperyfrog slipperyfrog is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadebox
Okay. But, knowledge tends to trump luck most of the time.

Maybe an analogy will help.

Take the Ford Mustang.

Certain parts and features of the car are patented. The patents cover the inventions that make functions of the car work.

The overall design, the appearance, of a specific model of the Mustang is copyrighted. The copyright protects the artistic expression of the design.

Some distinctive design elements, such as the pony logo are trademarked. Trademarks protect those elements of the design that distinguish it from those made by others.

It's unlikely that any of the work Jay did in the design of the kit would be a unique , non-trivial invention that could be protected by a patent.

Some elements of a kit design might be something that could be trademarked if they distinguish the kits from others. The square bodies of Newway's rockets might be that type of thing.

Copyright, though, is the only form of protection for the overall design of a rocket.

-- Roger


Too bad this "design" is not copyright-able.

Hey I'm not saying this guy is right to be out there selling the rip off. I wouldn't buy it but facts are facts. If you want to go after him you are not going to be able to do it by copyright unless it is for the photos or written instructions. Even then unless you actually filed for the copyright your luck at having anything stick is next to nothing.
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  #35  
Old 03-15-2014, 05:56 PM
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jadebox jadebox is offline
Roger Smith/JonRocket.com
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperyfrog
Too bad this "design" is not copyright-able.


Of course it is. Jay has a copyright on the design just as any artist has on his work.

-- Roger
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  #36  
Old 03-15-2014, 06:34 PM
johnnwwa johnnwwa is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Washington State
Posts: 467
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This is what I sent 2014_Snark after a ebay deal went south.

Rocketry forums have a way of notifying people of bad apples. SUPER ENLARGED version of the Semroc "Tau Zero" rocket kit, 40" long, 2.5" dia. The photo is directly ripped off the SEMROC site. Not only that you direct copied the SEMROC instructions for this kit. Apparently you missed this (Copyright © 2008 Semroc Astronautics Corporation) Oh and I'll bet you didn't bother to ask permission from The Designer Jay G. to upscale the kit or to use SEMROC instructions
Oh and your spelling sucks.

Have a nice Day
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NAR #91135 L1
SAM #0037
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  #37  
Old 03-15-2014, 06:49 PM
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tmacklin tmacklin is offline
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It's raining down in Texas which always makes me crave some Ray Wiley Hubbard. This song is dedicated to that there Ebay pirate, 2014_Snark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Mrez7ahZA
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  #38  
Old 03-15-2014, 07:24 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnwwa
This is what I sent 2014_Snark after a ebay deal went south.

Rocketry forums have a way of notifying people of bad apples. SUPER ENLARGED version of the Semroc "Tau Zero" rocket kit, 40" long, 2.5" dia. The photo is directly ripped off the SEMROC site. Not only that you direct copied the SEMROC instructions for this kit. Apparently you missed this (Copyright © 2008 Semroc Astronautics Corporation) Oh and I'll bet you didn't bother to ask permission from The Designer Jay G. to upscale the kit or to use SEMROC instructions
Oh and your spelling sucks.

Have a nice Day

He also directly copied the decals.
__________________
Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
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  #39  
Old 03-15-2014, 08:40 PM
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Tau Zero Tau Zero is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho, USA
Posts: 2,318
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The next installment in the ongoing saga:

---

Dear centuriguy,

Ok, just thought it was designed back in the 60s or 70s. Do you have documentation showing you designed it and confirming your identity?

- 2014_snark

---

Jay wrote:

Then obviously you didn't read the "release date" in the instructions.

Here's some of my documentation.

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=834

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=4326

http://www.rocketreviews.com/jay-goemmer-biography.html

---
__________________
Jay Goemmer
"Centuri Guy"/"Tau Zero"
YORF Member 28
Semroc SAM #0029
NAR 86131


"I think about organizing things all the time. Never seems to happen. I find something that piques my interest and I'm off on a quest. Or a Centuri. "

--Bill Eichelberger, 02/22/2022


“Centuri fret buzz in an updated form.”
Bill “Wallyum” Eichelberger re: Estes Flutter-By
03 Sept 2014

Last edited by Tau Zero : 03-15-2014 at 09:03 PM.
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  #40  
Old 03-15-2014, 09:38 PM
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tmacklin tmacklin is offline
Almost shovel ready
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tau Zero
The next installment in the ongoing saga:

---

Dear centuriguy,

Ok, just thought it was designed back in the 60s or 70s. Do you have documentation showing you designed it and confirming your identity?

- 2014_snark

---

Jay wrote:

Then obviously you didn't read the "release date" in the instructions.

Here's some of my documentation.

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=834

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=4326

http://www.rocketreviews.com/jay-goemmer-biography.html

---



It looks to me like this clown is taking great delight in tormenting you. He's probably sitting down in his basement in his week old underwear and fantasizing about dating Richard Simmons. Unfortunately, there's little one can do with vermin like this.

Maybe GH has some clever ideas? Wait a minute, forget GH! I've got it! A theme rocket dedicated to 2014_Snark to be sold on Ebay to the highest bidder. It could be in the shape of a Baby Ruth and painted in various shades of brown. It must have a tapered "turd tail", just like the real McCoy. You can call it "The Stinker...What a P.O.S.!"
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