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Estes "Starter" issues
Is anyone else having trouble with whatever Estes replaced our igniters with? In the past three weeks I've attempted 11, 7 and 6 launches using three different launchers with fresh batteries and clean clips. In that time I've had 8 successful flights, several of which were a struggle. The other 16 just stood on the pad no matter how hard I pressed or how often I tried. Has anyone else had an issue with these non-starters? I have a hard time imagining that they'll be getting much in the way of return customers if this is the kind of average we can look forward to. Would someone who bought a starter set bother coming back if the average success rate was one of the three motors in a pack?
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Bill Eichelberger NAR 79563 http://wallyum.blogspot.com/ I miss being SAM 0058 Build floor: Centuri Mini Dactyl Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Marauder, Shrike, SST Shuttle In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III Ready to fly: Estes - Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Groonie Der V 1/2 |
#2
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I burn the white crap off my starters, and use dip on them, and haven't had a failure since then. Before I had a 70-80 percent success rate with ignition.
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#3
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I had opened some motors and took the starters out. Used the ping pong ball desolved in acetone goo to coat the starters and serve as insulation where the wires were close together.
Yesterday’s DARS launch hosted several dozen Scouts (it seemed like a herd). I went through the dozen coated starters to replace misfires while running the LPR racks. All 12 worked without fail. Some have used the fabric glue containing acetone and dipped in gunpowder. This is simpler. Your experience may vary. Chas
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Charles Russell, MSgt,USAF (ret.) NAR 9790, Lvl 1 SAM "Balls Three" |
#4
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A lot of the brands of clear nail polish are nothing more than Nitrate (nitrocellulose) Dope.
One can use that to dip Estes "starters" to make them far more effective. Mixing 4f black powder or ground up fireworks "sparkler" material in with the clear nail polish makes the dip even more effective.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!! Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't ! Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY. ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC ! |
#5
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I have so many of the old Estes igniters that I’ve been using those for most launches, but I did try one of the new starters last year. I made sure it touched the propellant, and it did work. But I figured I would experiment with dip for the new starters, so I’ve been doing the dip from ping pong balls dissolved in acetone , mixed with BP. These flare up nicely, almost as long as an e-match.
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Lee Reep NAR 55948 Projects: Semroc Saturn 1B, Ken Foss Designs Mini Satellite Interceptor In the Paint Shop: Nothing! Too cold! Launch-Ready: Farside-X, Maxi Honest John, Super Scamp |
#6
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I find they do work but there is no margin for error - if they aren't against the propellant, they don't go. My personal experience is about one misfire in 10 while being careful installing them. It doesn't seem to matter if the launch controller is an Electron Beam or a 12V-battery-based club system. The little Astron II launch controller that uses a 9V battery MUST use a Duracell or Energizer or the "starters" just don't.
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Bernard Cawley NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member SAM 0061 AMA 42160 KG7AIE |
#7
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As I recall Estes reformulated the coating on their igniters and called them starters to get around new shipping regulations which would have affected the igniters with the black pyrogen. The white coating does not flare up like a match, so you have to make sure it is in contact with the propellant. I experienced a 50% failure rate at one launch (about 8 rockets) after which I promptly recoated all my white coated "starters" with Quick Dip pyrogen. One little jar can do hundreds of igniters. Others use nail polish and dip them in black powder just before launch. For clusters I have a stash of Quest Q2G2 igniters.
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#8
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I have a fresh batch of Quick Dip due in the mail tomorrow. I got it to make igniters for other motors, but dipping a bunch of the "starters" is certainly worth doing while I'm at it.
My cluster approach is the same as yours.....at least while the supply lasts.
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Bernard Cawley NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member SAM 0061 AMA 42160 KG7AIE |
#9
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I was 100% with no "starter" failures at last spring's school launch for about 100 third graders. I use a car battery and home built controller for six pads.
Other than the ~800 CCA battery, nothing special is done. I install all the "starters" instead of the kids or teachers, making sure that the leads don't touch just behind the clear dip. Before I started installing them myself, we had about a 50% failure rate regardless of the igniter vintage.
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I love sanding. |
#10
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I get an almost 100% ignition rate with BARE NICHROME tamped in with a small ball of wadding when using the 7Ah Gel-Cell I use as my PowerPanel/Starter battery for my Glow R/C airplane flight box. I use the same light little battery to launch rockets with an old-school orange Astron Launch Controller. It will instantly light 3 engine clusters using bare nichrome. Any larger # clusters, I have stepped up to a car battery.
I'm thinking bare nichrome would be better than these new Estes "starters/initiators". I always liked the Astron Igniters better than the Solar Igniters. I still have several paks of those along with Centuri Sure Shots.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!! Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't ! Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY. ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC ! |
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