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  #1  
Old 06-14-2020, 02:17 PM
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K'Tesh K'Tesh is offline
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Question Need Help Establishing Estes Parachute Timeline.

I'm trying to determine when Estes designs changed, and I'm hoping to get some help on this.

I'm aware of the Estes K-Kits website by Eric Higgins (http://www.vintageestesrockets.com/...utes/index.htm), but I've found it isn't complete.*

I've found clear indication that the Type III (AKA Sunburst) design came into use in 1970, with instructions from the single piece fin version of the Astron Cherokee-D (K-47). I recently received a Citation Red Max KC-2 (the boxed version (ca. 1973)), and the included parachute is a Type III.

Here's the rub. Eric's site doesn't make a distinction between the early Type III, and later Type III parachutes which I found in the kits I was buying in the 80s and 90s. For clarity, I'll call the later one the Type IIIA design.

The early Type III 18" chute is printed on a clear plastic. It has a white Estes (Damon era) logo, in a black circle, around this are orange and white rays that extend out from there, and the trim is clear. The later Type IIIA 18" chute is printed on white plastic, and except for the trim, is otherwise identical. I'd like to know when they changed from the clear plastic to the white plastic versions.

Why is this important? Perhaps you're looking for a first edition of your favorite rocket that came out in 19XX , If it has the clear background parachute, it's the one you want. If it has the white background, it's a later edition.

So, can anyone help me learn when the Type III parachute made the change to the Type IIIA?

*The Estes Astron Cherokee-D (K-47) made the switch from the Type II to the Type III in 1970, but his site doesn't note that. In fact he seems to be unaware of the fact that there are two short versions, instead of one. With help, I found that there were two different versions released in 1970. The old one is shown in the instructions for the two piece finned version, but the single piece fin version has the Type III. In 1971, the kit was lengthened to include the 18" long BT-55 body tube, instead of the original 16.35" BT-55V tube. While I lack credible instructions for the K-47 long version, Estes kept producing the Cherokee-D as the K-47 until 1974. The BNC-55AC balsa nosecone appears in the catalogs until 1974, and was replaced with the PNC-55AC in 1975 (the same year the Cherokee-D was changed from the K-47 kit to the 1247 kit). However, the catalog's specs for the Cherokee-D were never updated with the different lengths and body tubes. Also of note the 1972 catalog was the last year the word Astron was used with the K-47 kit. I have been in touch with Eric in the past, and am going to try and contact him again.
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  #2  
Old 06-14-2020, 04:54 PM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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I can't pin anything down for you, but I was still getting clear trim chutes from both Estes and Centuri in the latter 70's. I can't recall if every size was that way, though.
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:15 AM
dannymrmissile dannymrmissile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K'Tesh
I'm trying to determine when Estes designs changed, and I'm hoping to get some help on this.

I'm aware of the Estes K-Kits website by Eric Higgins (http://www.vintageestesrockets.com/...utes/index.htm), but I've found it isn't complete.*

I've found clear indication that the Type III (AKA Sunburst) design came into use in 1970, with instructions from the single piece fin version of the Astron Cherokee-D (K-47). I recently received a Citation Red Max KC-2 (the boxed version (ca. 1973)), and the included parachute is a Type III.

Here's the rub. Eric's site doesn't make a distinction between the early Type III, and later Type III parachutes which I found in the kits I was buying in the 80s and 90s. For clarity, I'll call the later one the Type IIIA design.

The early Type III 18" chute is printed on a clear plastic. It has a white Estes (Damon era) logo, in a black circle, around this are orange and white rays that extend out from there, and the trim is clear. The later Type IIIA 18" chute is printed on white plastic, and except for the trim, is otherwise identical. I'd like to know when they changed from the clear plastic to the white plastic versions.

Why is this important? Perhaps you're looking for a first edition of your favorite rocket that came out in 19XX , If it has the clear background parachute, it's the one you want. If it has the white background, it's a later edition.

So, can anyone help me learn when the Type III parachute made the change to the Type IIIA?

*The Estes Astron Cherokee-D (K-47) made the switch from the Type II to the Type III in 1970, but his site doesn't note that. In fact he seems to be unaware of the fact that there are two short versions, instead of one. With help, I found that there were two different versions released in 1970. The old one is shown in the instructions for the two piece finned version, but the single piece fin version has the Type III. In 1971, the kit was lengthened to include the 18" long BT-55 body tube, instead of the original 16.35" BT-55V tube. While I lack credible instructions for the K-47 long version, Estes kept producing the Cherokee-D as the K-47 until 1974. The BNC-55AC balsa nosecone appears in the catalogs until 1974, and was replaced with the PNC-55AC in 1975 (the same year the Cherokee-D was changed from the K-47 kit to the 1247 kit). However, the catalog's specs for the Cherokee-D were never updated with the different lengths and body tubes. Also of note the 1972 catalog was the last year the word Astron was used with the K-47 kit. I have been in touch with Eric in the past, and am going to try and contact him again.

You must understand one major thing. Kits being produced used left over stock of chutes that lasted for several years. When the 2 color Red and White one appeared in 1970, most kits in production before were still using the old checkered ones as there were Lots left over. I currently have mid 70s kits with these in them. Pinpointing an exact time chutes changed does not include when they were used ! I even have mid 70s mini brutes with the cold power land rocket chutes in them. As prices rose and interest dropped,,, whatever was available was tossed in the bag. I call these "Transitional " kits. The Same applies to parts, Hangtags, and most everything else about the kits. I’ve scrutinized these kits for decades. No consistent pattern follows any particular chute or part, especially from the Pre Damon to Subsidiary of Damon kits. After the start of the 1980s, I stopped trying to keep up. However, the 60s ones with the rocket ship in the center changed to the Estes name in center in 1968. Even then there was lap over. The very first ones, 1960-61, some had solid color Red or Black ones using only 4 shroud lines. But that’s mostly Model Missiles Stuff. Just savor any kits you have with the beloved checkerboard ones in them.
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  #4  
Old 08-24-2020, 10:44 AM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannymrmissile
Pinpointing an exact time chutes changed does not include when they were used ! I even have mid 70s mini brutes with the cold power land rocket chutes in them.

Yep. I have an EAC Viper that came with a cold power drag chute. I didn't get the EAC membership until I had been in the hobby for several years so it was probably around 1980 or 81.
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  #5  
Old 08-24-2020, 12:38 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Yep. I have an EAC Viper that came with a cold power drag chute. I didn't get the EAC membership until I had been in the hobby for several years so it was probably around 1980 or 81.

That's what my eBay Viper came packed with.
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