I have someone in mind to submit it for me . . .

TRACKING - NARAM final results.

IMPLEMENTATION - When you register for NARAM, you are automatically assigned to a Master group, based on the Tracking data.

TIME LIMIT - More than 2 finishes in the Top 3, at NARAM ( Trophy places ), in various Events, over a consecutive 5-year period of one's participation at NARAM.

Notice I said Events ( BG, RG, SD, PD, Scale, PMC, etc. ) . . . Not everyone is great is ALL Events . . . The previous year's NARAM Champions would ALL compete in Master. ALSO, if you fly RC, you would compete in Master.

TEAMS - Different Members . . . Let's talk about Scale . . . Teams usually have one "Scale Guru" who constructs the Scale model for the Team . . . Since we, for the most part, know who they are, any Team they are on, would compete in Master, in Scale .

Dave F.

The last few posts are interesting.

I’ve stayed out of this thread up to now. As I’ve noted in some of the other discussions, I’m a sometime competitor and have competed in exactly three NARAMs so far (56, 60, 61). At 56 I won one event and flew in a few others. At 60, I won one event, took one second, and placed well enough in several others to be the reserve meet champion (second to Mr. Kidwell) by virtue of some fourths, mostly.

I guess based on the criteria to be a “master” as proposed here, if it were in force today, I would have to compete as a “master” in A Streamer Duration at NARAM-64 this summer since I won that event at NARAM-60 (even though the only masteterful things I did to win were to pay attention to George’s thermal indicators and sacrifice my good Micafilm streamer to the rocket gods).

And I’d have to compete as a “master” in B Cluster Altitude as I was second at NARAM-60 if they fly it again at NARAM-65. I’d also have to fly as a “master” in E Altitude if it is flown again before NARAM-66 as I took third at NARAM 61 (my only decent showing that year).

But if they fly C altitude or A cluster altitude, or 1/2A SD at NARAM 65, am I a Master for those events, too, then?

Note also that I have flown very little NRC and so was not eligible for event specialist awards or to be national champion. This is mainly due to logistics/opportunities in the Seattle area to fly them. My own club site is really too small for most of them, for example.

But this also means that my NARAM competition participation has pretty much been my only competition participation for several years. And at NARAM-64 my wife is likely to be a first-time-anywhere competitor in a couple of events — or at least that’s the current plan.

I still don’t get this whole business of “qualifying for NARAM”… one can just come and fly. At least, that’s how I’ve done it, and will do it again this year if we manage to get there after helping at TARC and the WSMC.

ADDED (since re-editing this will be a pain, and the question about whether being a master for this purpose applies to other impulse classes is still relevant): The criterion Dave suggested is finishing in the top 3 at a NARAM in a particular event twice in five years. Sorry I missed that at first. By that measure, I am an expired master at B Cluster Altitude (first place at NARAM-56, second place at NARAM-60) but not in the other events.

Added later: I went to NARAM-56 and competed in that one event mainly as a bucket list item. I came back for NARAM-60 because it was at the same site (and for the Old Rocketeers Reunion). I went to NARAM-61 because 60 was so much fun….but the drive to Muncie from Seattle was quite far enough. It is very unlikely that I will drive to any future NARAMs that are much further east than Pueblo in the forseeable future. Lordsburg is close enough (and my wife and I both have family in New Mexico). I guess the point of this, for the purposes of this discussion, is that it is unlikely I’ll be competing in consecutive NARAMs in the future, but only when they’re within three-days drive. BTW, NARAM-57 was within that level of striking distance, but even having grown up in the Southwest (or maybe because of it), going to Tucson in the height of summer wasn’t all that appealing. Which makes me wonder about Lordsburg….but now I’m really drifting off topic….

__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE

To what extent were the changes intended to save competition in general versus to save competition at NARAM in particular?

Is there any way we can have a return of the section championship so that a section which does not send competitors to NARAM can have a chance to win by holding lots of contests and having many of the members of the section participate? Currently, non-NARAM going sections have zero incentive.


Bill

__________________
It is well past time to Drill, Baby, Drill!

If your June, July, August and September was like this, you might just hate summer too...

Please unload your question before you ask it unless you have a concealed harry permit.

: countdown begin cr dup . 1- ?dup 0= until cr ." Launch!" cr ;

Give a man a rocket and he will fly for a day; teach him to build and he will spend the rest of his days sanding...

If we can't save and grow "competition in general", "competition at NARAM", will also be similarly harmed.

Dave F.

Thanks for taking the time to share your perspective, Kevin. Were the perceived problems and barriers that were fixed effective? I'd say no they weren't. Does that mean then that the basis for making the changes was flawed? I'd say, yes they were. But a rehash of what was discussed almost 7 years ago seems pointless to me. I hope that you agree with me.


Certain people fly NARAM year after year, and they wouldn't miss it for the world. They love the sport. For me, contest rocketry is probably the most fun one can have with model rocketry. But I've noticed a recurring sentiment expressed by some, over many years, that "those people" are a problem. Ever notice that? You can hear it echoed on the forums and on the sport ranges. Yes they do love contest rocketry, those nasty, resource-consuming, body-tube rolling, vainglorious, BTC, 2-percenter, piston-popping, pencil neck geeks. Let's piss in their cornflakes! Why on Earth would anyone attempt to regulate or ban people who find a particular activity, like contest rocketry, to be a fun and rewarding pastime? It's about the most mean-spirited thing I've ever heard of.



Until it's not... As you and Steve pointed out, yes, it's so easy to hold a contest. Yes, there are the standard selling points for the NRC to repeat. As a NAR Section Leader and last few years' host of our twice-monthly launches, I KNOW THAT. I get it. I understand what you are saying. There are many positive aspects about the NRC.

The exception I wrote a sentence or two about isn't really a negative point, in my opinion. If you are not going to NARAM, then what's the point of flying ANY NRC event? I believe that many Sections, including my own, find themselves there. I think we had one guy in my Section go to NARAM, but not for the NRC, and only for the weekend.

We hosted NRC meets all last year. I think we got two flights. Or was that the year before? I forget. People don't participate, and haven't even asked me, "BTW Wolf, what are these NRC Launches you keep announcing on our email list?" No interest. And I do not have extra time to build and fly for these events anymore, much less time to devote to promoting or mentoring local fliers. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to. But it does seem pointless since I am not really big on going to NARAMs.

__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

That's an interesting question. I know that for the brief time I was up on the NRC scoreboard and doing well (after flying at the day-after-NARAM-61 pickup meet hosted by Don Carson) it was fun for me even though I was certain I wasn't going to NARAM-62.

But I'm probably an outlier here as well, and the actual flying WAS on the NARAM field, just the day after things were done. I haven't flown any NRC since though I have thought about it.

Without significant travel I generally fly at two sites. One (the one where I run BEMRC launches) is too small really for any duration events and the other is marginal and is only available outside soccer season. So it's not been easy arranging for NRC contests, even the "two NAR members" level...though now that my wife is also an NAR member, and we sometimes go fly together at the soccer complex....hmmmmmm.....maybe we can get a few scores in.

I did do some contest flying at that soccer field for the virtual NARAM we had a couple of years ago....

__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE

That's another thing. Our Section field is small. One stands a good chance of loosing any rocket that can max and get you up (way up) on the score board.

Fire and forget is not in my rocketry language.

But that is just what it takes to fly the NRC. I really wish they hadn't disposed of the "returns" rule. It's all fire and forget now.

__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

Well, I suppose one of us could write a rules change proposal to bring returns back to the NRC...

__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE

Bernard,

Actually, an RCP to do just the opposite just passed.

RCP 2021-04 just did away with requiring returns for duration events at NARAM.

RCP 2021-04

RCP 2021 # 004: Removal of Rule 30.9.2; Returns – NARAM.
Passes: Yes: 51 / No: 32

Of note, at NARAM 62 a first time Junior flyer thermalled away both of her parachute duration flights. So she got no score, did not win a medal, even though she outflew everyone, including most of the adults. She was very sweet about it but it was clearly not a rule to encourage a new flyer.

As for reinstituting the requirement for returns , that would just make the events more difficult, which i think is unlikely to attract more fliers.

So asking new fliers to build a bunch of rockets and loose them is the way to go.

__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President