I had heard that some pretty innovative RC gear was coming out for the Cox line. Any idea where that still stands?

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Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Innovative gear? There is that new type of rubber wheel that never wears out, is that the innovative gear you mean?

Yes, there is some new tech being developed, NO I can't say anything about it.

Go ask your LHS to get in Cox Micro Warbirds. RTF scale airplanes, retails at $90, all complete in the box. These are park-size planes, perfect for baseball or soccer fields.

I just want to say that this is a GREAT thread and I want to thank AKPilot for starting it and Eagle3 for not locking it. I also think that it is a very good thing that we have Rocket Doctor and Roguepink as members on this forum and I enjoy reading their posts .

Agreed

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Leo

My rocket fleet and more @ Leo's Leisure Site and on YouTube - My latest project: ALTDuino

I don't want anyone to think I'm choosing sides, OR piling on, either. I think some of us are just trying to be objective and see BOTH sides. I don't think this type of thinking was intended as an attack towards RD. I'll speak for myself anyway. I apologize if it came off that way.

I understand Ken's frustration. It was a good to have someone like RD at Estes, willing to push for things, and relaying the customer feedback. Having someone who is in the hobby, working as a consultant, is a good thing. And as he said, none of us were actually there to actually see and hear what conversations took place between RD and BT. RD's heart is definitely in the right place. I think many of us have the same passion for the hobby as RD, else we wouldn't be here. But we have to keep things in perspective...it's just that....a hobby!

No sense in harping on what Estes will or won't do. They have become what they are. I think they made an effort to at least give us SOME of what we asked for (I think we can all thank RD for that!). From the looks of it, if all goes well, the Shrox stuff will actually be another step in the right direction.

I don't like that BT is out of touch with our small segment of his business. He's missing out on some great potential in many aspects. His one sided conversation with AK didn't make me think any better of him. I happen to think there is a lot of pot stirring...and pushing "HOT" buttons between the people directly involved. The forums have become a zone for them to air the laundry in hopes that people WILL choose sides. I think all of it makes for a GREAT read, honestly. Lot's of facts presented, and lots of opinions too!

Well said.

This, unfortunately, has turned into a shouting contest over who has better information. Its all opinions and interpretations of events, and Rocket Doctor has made many good points here. I apologize again if I have needlessly "stirred the pot" as has been suggested.

Estes is, very much, a mass market company that has no time to consider the wishes of the hobby community from which it came. Their catalog DOES show new hobby product, however, so not all hope is lost.

Barry Tunick has neither the time nor desire to bend words with the individual hobbyists. His plans are far beyond such things now.

Rocket Doctor has excellent insight into the hobby rocket community. He has vast knowledge of its history. However he and I differ in the interpretation of present day Estes Industries, we do seem to agree that its not the company for and run by model rocket enthusiasts as it once was.

What should we do?

Go out a buy lots of the new kits. Buy them at good old fashioned hobby stores. Don't buy anything Estes at WalMart or any other mass market big-box store. Use our wallets to send the message we want to send; Estes Industries has always been and will always be best rewarded by serving the hobby business first.

This has been a enlightening thread about Estes. I got back into model rocketry just under 2 years ago. I was supprised to see how much Estes had changed from the late 70s early 80s. I have had good experiences with Estes so far. I don't buy many of their new kits because they don't really interest me. I was happy to see they brought back Der Red Max and the Interceptor. Too bad the decals for the Der Red Max were a goof. I was happy to see Estes listen and fix the problem, heck they have sent me over 20 sets of decals. I have never had any problems getting parts from Christine. Estes is a large corporation and it is what is. They are here to make a lot of money and not entertain the few hard core hobbyist. If you look at the forum members, I think this forum has over 900 and TRF has 4000. RC Airplane forums have 20,000 to over 100000 members. If we had those numbers I guarantee Estes would listen to its true followers. I hope that the mass marketing that Estes does ends up attracting new rocketeers. These new rocketeers will end up online looking up model rocketry and learn that there are other model rocket companies and more options to choose from. I know that when I was young in 1979 I was exposed to rockets by my school. I remember being the only kid that took up the hobby. My parents would take me to the hobby store to pick up the Estes catalog. The only choices I had back then was Estes and a few Centuri kits. I am guessing that Estes is just trying to stay alive during these tough times. My father was forced into early retirement due to factory cut backs, my brother received his pink slip as a teacher here in California. My father in law owns his own company and he just laid off workers due to hard times. I don't know if Estes will ever come back to its grass roots, but that's ok as long as there are other quality companies out there. I was not around for the Vern days of rocketry, was not born yet. But I do appreciate everything he has done. I personally would love to see Estes do more bring backs and listen to us BAR's, but I don't see that happening. Oh well, I have over 200 vintage Estes kits to build and that should keep be busy for awhile. I will continue to buy Estes products and pray they attract new rocketeers to keep this hobby alive.

Wow, three great posts in a row! Foose4string, roguepink2, scigs30: the combination of your last posts should be the perfect endnote for this thread. So unless anyone objects, I propose that we wrap this discussion and its ancillary discussions up and start talking about something else. Or, better yet, let's all give the keyboard a rest and go and build some rockets and then fly them!

Mark

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SAM # 0011

I just stumbled on this thread a bit late. Let's not open up any dead horse issues, but I did want to comment on a few things.

If any one is interested in the Arrow Handicrafts company that Damon bought around the same time as Estes, Centuri, and Hi Flyer, I can tell you a bit about them. I met the CEO of the company 26 years ago, and have seen him many times since then. Maybe not quite as often as Vern, but more often than I've seen Lee. Or Barry

Those of my generation might remember as a kid making one of those leather and plastic lace wallets or comb cases or something like that. That was Arrow Handicraft. The company was based here in the Chicago area. The man that owned it was Jack Heiman.

Now, here's the fun connection. Many of you know my wife, Judy. Jack is her uncle, and Heiman is her mother's maiden name. Jack was one of the many extended family members I met for the first time at my wedding, where he handed me his card with the Estes, Centuri, HiFlyer and Arrow logos all on the card.

Uncle Jack knows Vern, Lee, Dane Boles, and a bunch of other old time Estes and Centuri folks.

Again, I don't want to inflict any further abuse on deceased equines, ...

"death threats" were one of the things that Barry accused me of making against him and his family on RMR back when he physically attacked me at the RCHTA show nearly a decade ago. A friend who kept the RMR archives searched, and found no threats made by me or any one else. In fact the only reference to his family was when someone posted that Gleda and my wife should talk to Barry's wife, and I said something like "It never occurred to me that Barry had a wife".

It wasn't my first run-in with one of Barry's finest at RCHTA. A year before I'd asked if there were going to be any more Dark Star motors made, and was the subject of extensive verbal abuse by another employee.

As to threats against other employees from hobbyists, balderdash. I would say that if Mary Roberts ever did show up again at a NARAM or hobby show, I'd walk up to her and give her a big hug. Wait, I may have done that already. Any one else, I'd probably just shake their hand.

Well, OK, not really threat regarding Barry, but a promise. I did file a complaint against him after the incident in Rosemont years ago. I don't know what the statute of limitations is on such actions, but if I ever find out he's back in Illinois, I'd certainly drop a dime on the Rosemont police and ask if they'd be interested in arresting him on the outstanding charges.

I also filed a complaint with the RCHTA show management immediately after the incident. I got the impression from them that Estes, or maybe just Barry, were no longer welcome at the show, which may be part of why they never returned.