Does this mean we will NOT be getting real B14's ???

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

No. They are in a different family. Working on them as time permits.

__________________
Carl McLawhorn
NAR#4717 L2
semroc.com

When in doubt, go with HIGHER thrust, not lower.
Release the 18N peak hybrids and forget the 11N others...you want to release something NOT already filled in the market, correct ?
The BP SU engine market is flooded with plenty of moderate and low thrust motors.
What I can't for the life of me figure out is who was asking for LOWER thrust long burn BP motors that have came on the market the past few years.
Where was the market research that suggested those were needed/wanted ?
I know I don't recall any threads asking for those, but there have been plenty asking for HIGH thrust motors.
Light rockets are the only ones that can use low-thrust motors without creating a menace.
High thrust motors can be used in light or heavy rockets, therefore the utility is FAR greater.
For example, it would have made FAR greater sense for "Brand E" to have brought out a port-burning D30 instead of the "cant lift a hill of beans" E9.
Please, no "screwball" non-standard motor diameters like 20mm or 27mm either.
Makes far more sense to make a slightly LONGER 18mm or 24mm motor to fit the propellant than some screwy 20 or 27mm design. I think most would rather have to add a little noseweight to compensate for a motor sticking a little out of the tail than have to build a new motor mount.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

You are entitled to your opinion. I would also like to see a B14 equivalent. Not everybody wants motors that cause the model to lift off at warp speed in every instance. Some models are going to benefit from a slower liftoff. Some contest models will benefit from a lower thrust curve. I also agree with you about no market survey being done. Not sure what that might yield. You speak in absolutes and your way is the best way. Try to be receptive to others thoughts and opinions. Try it you might actually like it

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Jim Filler
NARHAMS # 139
NAR CB - RCPC

I am receptive to other thoughts...the problem is that manufacturers up until this point have been coming out with low-thrust BP SU motors that nobody seems to have been asking for. I think they are copping-out by just making easy-to-make motors.
Low-thrust long burn motors have a VERY narrow window of models that can use them at all, let alone optimally. High thrust motors (within reason, don't need a D159-x) can be used for virtually all models, even though the lightest models will not fly the highest on them. Contest flying represents probably less than .1 % of all flights flown, which makes very little sense to target motors to unless those fliers want to pay like $15 each for a B2-x whatever.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

The problem is that the motors that GH and others (including myself) want always seem to be "un-make-able" for one reason or another. B14s are too dangerous, A3-6Ts can't be packed within the 1.75" mini motor cases anymore, etc., and it gets frustrating.

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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

The last EXCUSE we got from the guys that don't WANT to make B14's was that they wouldn't sell instead of using the mamby-pamby safety excuse that also holds no water.
They must have been using that extremely up-to-date market sales data from 1976 or 1977 that has to be accurate 35 freakin' years later. What a double-talk JOKE.
I would rather hear truthful "we dont wanna do it no matter what" than a rotten pack of BALONEY. Every excuse they had, I offered a valid counterpoint.

I'm glad Carl & co. will prove them wrong, AS USUAL.
Once he gets his Mabel a-crankin' I highly doubt I will be purchasing any 18mm motors other than Semroc. I support those responsive to us.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

Having cussed and discussed things over the years with Carl, Sheryl, and Bruce it is evident to me that they "get it". This is not their first rodeo and they are doing great things with few people and the resources we provide them by being loyal customers.

My personal take is that motors, ANY motors, would be what I want now. They know the pros and cons. Many hobby shops or on-line dealers do not want to carry multiple BP or composite brands, although some do. Still, if they are cost effective and unique and available...

Carl, I would like to see the hybrid motors out first. They are somewhat different and no doubt will live up to your usual quality. It would cost you some money and labor costs to put a label on each kit that shows the recommended SEMROC motors, but since you batch a couple of kits when necessary, it is one minor additional step (done a hundred times or more each time). Eventually, you could tweak the individual kit instructions to make those changes.
I have 13 ammo boxes of motors (six are collector motors) plus the 100+ in my flying motor box. I would gladly sell some of my Brand E and Q motors at a loss to support buying SEMROC motors.

Just a few thoughts. B14's sometime in the future (for old times sakes...).

Chas

__________________
Charles Russell, MSgt,USAF (ret.)
NAR 9790, Lvl 1
SAM "Balls Three"

Perhaps an opprtune time to chime in with regard to the proposed suspension of DOT-SP 7887 regarding the labeling of rocket motors as flammable materials as opposed to Explosives. Estes published a pro forma in their recent email subscription service which would seem beneficial to all that ship motors either as whilesaler or retailer.

The address to which the response should be sent is:

specialpermits@dot.gov

The subject line should be:

DOT-SP 7887 Show Cause Response

Suggested copy for the email:

Dear Associate Administrator,

The purpose of this e-mail is to request that DOT-SP 7887 be kept in force as written. The Special Permit, previously DOT-E 7887 has been in place since 1978 and is used by many of us who enjoy hobbies including model rockets, motors and igniters.

To my knowledge, there has never been a reported incident involving the shipping or transporting of model rocket motors and igniters. Further, I believe that shipping these products as "Explosives" with attendant packaging requirements will create unnecessary fear and difficulty for those handling, transporting, receiving, storing, selling and using these products. Moreover the labeling as such will instill into the hobby a sense of public concern that that is both inappropriate and unwarranted.

After 33 years of use, the termination of the Special Permit is both not required, and assuredly damaging to an educational and recreational product that has an excellent record. In closing, I again request the Special Permit be kept in place as written.

Include your name and address here

__________________
Gravity is a harsh mistress
SAM 002
NAR 91005
"The complexity of living is eminently favored to the simplicity of not."

Hey Carl,

I'm easy - I'll buy whatever you decide to put out there for us.

S.