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  #41  
Old 03-09-2014, 09:03 AM
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billspad billspad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5x7
I would like to see minor changes and the delay data from every firing. I got an email from NAR today and they may be able to provide some data.

We've been doing that for a while. It's on page 2 of the Engine Data Sheets. Here's the one for the F15
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  #42  
Old 03-09-2014, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
I have a question. Can a motor certified by TRA or CAR receive NAR contest certification without NAR also testing it? What is the process?

Does anybody actually ever look at the Combined Certified Motor list that we spend a lot of time maintaining?

The answer to your question is on page 4 of this .
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  #43  
Old 03-09-2014, 10:07 AM
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5x7 5x7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billspad
We've been doing that for a while. It's on page 2 of the Engine Data Sheets. Here's the one for the F15


It's great, and it made me want to see the data from the motor recert tests also.

Many of the PDFs available are the same sheets I bought from Narts in 1995, and don't include the delay data from individual firings. And if they did have the data, I wouldn't know if it represents motors currently produced.

I appreciate what we have available, it is wonderful. You mentioned producing new data sheets for retested motors which is a great step forward.

Last edited by 5x7 : 03-09-2014 at 06:21 PM.
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  #44  
Old 03-09-2014, 10:13 AM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billspad
Does anybody actually ever look at the Combined Certified Motor list that we spend a lot of time maintaining?
You betcha!

Just the other day, I used it to see if my Sky Ripper hybrid motors were still listed. I have some unused reloads, and an unflown rocket I built just for them! I was relieved to find them still listed

Doug

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  #45  
Old 03-09-2014, 10:21 AM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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I see a lot of yesses for CAR and some nos and some yesses for TRA so it appears to not be automatic. But I do see it is in the realm of likely. Thanks.

To answer your question I used to look at that list regularly, but not lately. It was always substantially more valuable than any list TRA produced and I for one appreciate that.

BTW there is an error in the list of manufacturers. In the motor tables they list both Kosdon and Kosdon/AT but it is not in the legend.

That pdf file had some motors highlighted in color but it is not clear from a legend why, unless I just missed it.

Since I remember HPR from well before it was called HPR by NAR, I find it quite interesting the sheer number of K, L, M motors, and the fact NAR lists N, O motors. There is a Cesaroni "full O" on that list.

I think the policy of declaring some motors HPR despite being below the model rocket federal thresholds, and arbitrarily adding a thrust limit and a spark limit is a bad idea. The spark limit could be by age of access instead. Redefining motors (by and in NFPA codes) along weight and thrust is an unwise policy IMHO. It conflicts with actual laws and regulatory positions.

Killing the G120 and F100 for model rocket sport use was a bad decision.

Jerry
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Exemptions not regulations ACHIEVED. U.S. Rockets instaship. http://bit.ly/1aca7mA Model rocketry is as safe as safe can be defined in human existence. Bow and pray: GH Stine, Orville, Vern, Lee, Lonnie, Carl, etc. No, really. U.S. Rockets released first moonburner Toy Rockets G30, TRA first certified motor: H, invented LMR, HPR, Firestarter, reloadables 1-90, and now . . . ACHIEVED. LDRS-1 I200!!

Last edited by Jerry Irvine : 03-09-2014 at 10:46 AM.
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  #46  
Old 03-09-2014, 06:30 PM
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billspad billspad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
You betcha!

Just the other day, I used it to see if my Sky Ripper hybrid motors were still listed. I have some unused reloads, and an unflown rocket I built just for them! I was relieved to find them still listed

Doug

.


Me too. I grabbed every SRS 38mm reload I could find when I heard they were no longer being produced. At my current rate of flying I'll have hybrids for a few more years.
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  #47  
Old 03-09-2014, 06:43 PM
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billspad billspad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
I see a lot of yesses for CAR and some nos and some yesses for TRA so it appears to not be automatic. But I do see it is in the realm of likely. Thanks.


Contest certification is dependent on the motor being a model rocket motor and it being readily available. It's not automatic at all but it is independent of the certifying group.



Quote:
To answer your question I used to look at that list regularly, but not lately. It was always substantially more valuable than any list TRA produced and I for one appreciate that.


That list is produced in cooperation with TRA and CAR. Each of the three groups posts the certification data (At least what you see on the list. Sometimes more.) to a mailing list that we all get. The S & T volunteered to maintain the list for everyone to use. TRA links to it on their website. I'm not sure about CAR.


Quote:
BTW there is an error in the list of manufacturers. In the motor tables they list both Kosdon and Kosdon/AT but it is not in the legend.


I'll check into that.

Quote:
That pdf file had some motors highlighted in color but it is not clear from a legend why, unless I just missed it.


All the highlighted motors have (HP) in front of them. We were asked to do that to make it more obvious that those are not model rocket motors even though their impulse class might lead you to believe they are.

Quote:
Since I remember HPR from well before it was called HPR by NAR, I find it quite interesting the sheer number of K, L, M motors, and the fact NAR lists N, O motors. There is a Cesaroni "full O" on that list.


The last time I counted there were over 800 certified motors from 1/8A to O!

Quote:
I think the policy of declaring some motors HPR despite being below the model rocket federal thresholds, and arbitrarily adding a thrust limit and a spark limit is a bad idea. The spark limit could be by age of access instead. Redefining motors (by and in NFPA codes) along weight and thrust is an unwise policy IMHO. It conflicts with actual laws and regulatory positions.


Too late.
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  #48  
Old 03-09-2014, 09:16 PM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billspad
Too late.
That's what Pat Miller said when I first suggested NAR increase the definition of a model rocket to allow for enough mass to increase safety and allow for payloads and big dumb rockets.

That's what Pat Miller and G. Harry Stine said when I suggested NAR adopt a definition for MRT (later HPR) above the MR definition but using similar materials and mass-manufactured motors.

It's never too late. Sometimes it takes a major fraction of a decade. Let's start now, starting with doubling the NAR/NFPA "thrust limit".

Those discussions well predate "Guy Noir" 's BS comment. I smell rabbit poop.

Jerry
__________________
Exemptions not regulations ACHIEVED. U.S. Rockets instaship. http://bit.ly/1aca7mA Model rocketry is as safe as safe can be defined in human existence. Bow and pray: GH Stine, Orville, Vern, Lee, Lonnie, Carl, etc. No, really. U.S. Rockets released first moonburner Toy Rockets G30, TRA first certified motor: H, invented LMR, HPR, Firestarter, reloadables 1-90, and now . . . ACHIEVED. LDRS-1 I200!!
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