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  #171  
Old 11-08-2011, 12:24 PM
raohara raohara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreadvector
I've popped into hobby shops at lunchtime and seen scout-dads buying loads of rocket stuff at full retail plus tax for their kid. Almost always at the last minute and they have no idea what they are buying or what "it should cost".


I see this as well.

I think *some* people on the forums believe that the retail hobby world stops at AC Supply, Hobby Lobby (with a 40% off coupon, of course), Hobbylinc, etc. It really doesn't.

- Rich
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  #172  
Old 11-08-2011, 12:26 PM
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Shreadvector Shreadvector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlag
Shred, I'll quit putting the dash in the wrong place if you can refrain from you-tubing so many of your responses!
And, the mistake I made when quoting the ValueRockets engine designation notwithstanding, the Estes price is too high for folks who know how to order ahead of time.
Obviously, a skill you have...! 3 x E30 or 3 x E15 for $20.99 sure beats 1 x E30 from Estes for $16, no matter how you want to slice it!
I really do not care what it "should" cost.
Allen


I've had dozens of people (literally) come up to me at national events like NARAM or NARCON or NSL and tell me they love the funny sound bite or video links I post, so I will keep doing that.

I'm not disagreeing with you about your price preference, I was simply trying to explain fully why full retail prices persist. Not everyone will pay full retail, but 95% of the market will. The comapnies that wish to make a profit and who would like that profit to be a large number will sell to as many willing consumers as they can.

And if they can make a bit extra selling at a discount to the other small niche of the market, they will do that as well.
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  #173  
Old 11-08-2011, 01:01 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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A LOT of the reason why Enerjet died was due to the fact that they had astronomically stupid prices on their engines.
NOBODY nowadays would pay $41 for a 80 n-sec engine now, and that explains why few would pay $8 for same back then. Not a good value for the $.

As far as I'm concerned, the motors should cost even LESS than the prices on the Valuerockets website.
At least going through them one is not paying some ZERO-value-add middleman wholesaler for doing virtually nothing.
The fewer the steps in the distribution chain, the more the customer benefits.
One HUGE reason why I order direct from manufacturers whenever possible. I would probably buy more at hobby shops if most were reasonably priced at about 10-15% above websites, but noooooo, they know better.

Those that pay full-retail, frankly, are LAZY MORONS that should do a little freakin' research and save a whole ton of money.

Seeing as Fred always sees fit to mamby-pamby nit-pick everyone else at every possible opportunity, WTF is a "comapnies " ?
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  #174  
Old 11-08-2011, 01:06 PM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Pricing is a choice. Aerotech charges its own dealers one price, its consumers another, and its OEM relabelers yet another. That strategy is based on what maximizes revenue to Aerotech, not to its vendors, or units to its users.

So GH should be vehimently opposed to Aerotech pricing policy as abhorent to low consumer net cost. As an alleged free marketer he is free to purchase motors at the best available AT price by spending over $20k per order and then selling to consumers at cost+10% so he can make his own wish come true.

What I don't understand about GH is why he is not downright happy that a wide range of folks pay full price so he can buy from a variety of outlets rather than one, and at discount pricing that would never be available to a direct sale only channel if dealers were out of the loop.

Jerry

Consumers didn't understand Enerjet or NCR. Estes now has a proper gradual approach with crossover 24mm in larger BP and smaller APCP. Then the user can do 29mm with those skills. I would like to see Estes/NAR/NFPA use the existing 125g exemption to offer a 240H60 to consumers at retail.
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Last edited by Jerry Irvine : 11-08-2011 at 01:22 PM.
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  #175  
Old 11-09-2011, 12:10 AM
Peter Olivola Peter Olivola is offline
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Having spent a considerable length of time in product distribution I have to say your blanket characterization of "middle men" is completely bogus. It is fairly common practice within certain high volume, low margin consumer products industries for your bogeyman in the middle to operate at little or no mark up, negotiating volume discounts for unaffiliated retail outlets and living on the short term investment generated by the time difference between payment from the retailer and remittance to the manufacturer. There are cost efficiencies that can only be achieved by independent distributors, especially when they handle multiple product lines from multiple manufacturers. Neither the individual manufacturer they buy from nor the retailer they sell to can achieve that efficiency without them. The alternative to the middleman distributor is Walmart. Is that your ideal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
A LOT of the reason why Enerjet died was due to the fact that they had astronomically stupid prices on their engines.
NOBODY nowadays would pay $41 for a 80 n-sec engine now, and that explains why few would pay $8 for same back then. Not a good value for the $.

As far as I'm concerned, the motors should cost even LESS than the prices on the Valuerockets website.
At least going through them one is not paying some ZERO-value-add middleman wholesaler for doing virtually nothing.
The fewer the steps in the distribution chain, the more the customer benefits.
One HUGE reason why I order direct from manufacturers whenever possible. I would probably buy more at hobby shops if most were reasonably priced at about 10-15% above websites, but noooooo, they know better.

Those that pay full-retail, frankly, are LAZY MORONS that should do a little freakin' research and save a whole ton of money.

Seeing as Fred always sees fit to mamby-pamby nit-pick everyone else at every possible opportunity, WTF is a "comapnies " ?
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  #176  
Old 11-09-2011, 09:33 PM
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turbofireball turbofireball is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
A LOT of the reason why Enerjet died was due to the fact that they had astronomically stupid prices on their engines.
NOBODY nowadays would pay $41 for a 80 n-sec engine now, and that explains why few would pay $8 for same back then. Not a good value for the $.

As far as I'm concerned, the motors should cost even LESS than the prices on the Valuerockets website.
At least going through them one is not paying some ZERO-value-add middleman wholesaler for doing virtually nothing.
The fewer the steps in the distribution chain, the more the customer benefits.
One HUGE reason why I order direct from manufacturers whenever possible. I would probably buy more at hobby shops if most were reasonably priced at about 10-15% above websites, but noooooo, they know better.

Those that pay full-retail, frankly, are LAZY MORONS that should do a little freakin' research and save a whole ton of money.


I thought ghrocketman's comments on pricing were very interesting. Not wanting to be a lazy moron, I surfed onto the valuerockets.com website to see their prices for Aerotech motors. I focused on the largest motors shown, and I checked their prices on 24x95 motors and 29x83 motors. I then easily found two middleman online vendors selling these same motors cheaper than valuerockets. That is my little freakin' research. The conclusion, some of ghrocketman's statements are incorrect.
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Last edited by Ltvscout : 11-10-2011 at 09:18 AM.
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  #177  
Old 11-10-2011, 12:00 AM
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Mark II Mark II is offline
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Not wanting to take any sides in this debate, but I just want to point out that not all of the motors that are listed on the valuerockets.com site have discounted prices. In particular, the largest motors seem to be at, or close to, list price. So yeah, if you find someone online that sells them at less than list price, then you'll save money on them by going somewhere else. Valuerockets.com is oriented to the beginner in rocketry; the motors that AeroTech regards as "entry level" are the ones that are discounted on the site. The larger, not-for-beginners motors on the site are not. AT also offers a starter set on that site that you cannot find anywhere else. To see a further example of list, rather than discount, pricing on the site, check out the prices for igniters. AeroTech has implemented a certain marketing strategy on that site. I'm not knowledgeable about business to explain it, but if you are willing to hunt around and are comfortable with ordering and paying for stuff online, you can pay lower prices for, say, single-use G motors. You might have a bit of trouble finding 3-packs of D10s, though, especially at that price.
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  #178  
Old 11-10-2011, 12:06 AM
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Mark II Mark II is offline
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One other reason that hasn't been mentioned for why many people prefer to purchase from physical stores is that not everyone is comfortable ordering online, especially if it is an unfamiliar product from an unfamiliar vendor. They also want to have the ability to ask questions and get answers from a real live person. Again, especially if they are shopping for a product that they aren't all that familiar with.

Personally, I regard online shopping as a gift. Without it, I would not be able to participate in this hobby to anywhere near the extent that I do. Purchasing from a physical retailer is not an option for me because of where I live. But the lack of retail vendors makes it very difficult to foster interest in the hobby here.
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