Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Scale & Sport Scale Rocketry
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 02-12-2019, 08:47 PM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 5,866
Default

On YouTube (the link is below), there is a short "filmized" (an actual term in TV and cinema work, for making taped or digital-camera video look like it was shot on film) video of what the on-board and window views from a Saturn V-launched, manned Mars flyby spaceship would have looked like. Such missions would have utilized a slightly modified Apollo spacecraft (a Service Module fitted with *two* engines [LEM Descent Engines, if memory serves] was preferred, for redundancy), docked to a new, truncated-cone habitation module that was to be permanently affixed to the top of the Saturn V's S-IVB third stage, inside the standard jettisonable SLA panels that were used for the Apollo lunar missions. Such manned missions--which were intended to fly by Mars or Venus (and even ^both^ planets on the same flight, with a December 1978 launch window)--were also, in some versions, intended to carry robotic landers, and:

I don't know whether the creator of this 3 minute, 16 second video (see: www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNyUucrF00c ) really believes in the "Redsun" conspiracy that he mentioned, or if was just his idea of a practical joke, but in image quality and production values, it looks like the motion picture films that were shot aboard--and looking out the window of--Skylab, which is how such 1970s manned planetary flyby movies would have looked. (In Arthur C. Clarke's 1964 TIME-LIFE series book, "Man and Space," and in his 1968 book, "The Promise of Space," launch windows for such proposed Mars, Venus, and dual Mars-Venus [on the same flight] manned flyby missions, which were intended to occur between 1973 and 1978, were mentioned.) Also:

It includes window-view shots of the receding Earth and Moon (with the astronauts adjusting the focus and the pointing, just as on actual missions), on-board interior views showing hand-lettered humorous signs made by the crew ("Day 100!", etc.), and out-the-window views of Mars getting larger, and then of Mars sliding by the spacecraft docking module that's visible outside the window. A poignant view shows Valles Marineris just a hundred or so miles below, with the faces of the "Snoopy hat-clad" astronauts reflected in the window, as they gaze down upon the Martian vistas with expressions of wonder and awe... As well:

Such manned planetary flyby missions, which have been referred to as "space station missions that actually go somewhere," are still timely and relevant today. No one has ever flown anywhere near so far from Earth, and missions of this kind would help to break down a big psychological barrier. (This is based on not-entirely-unwarranted concerns about long-term life-support system reliability in deep space [despite even longer-duration ISS experience], cosmic and solar radiation exposure outside the Earth's protective magnetosphere, and even isolation--with the Earth becoming just a bright star.) SpaceX's Falcon Heavy and BFR could loft such spaceships, which--due to their soft materials' superior radiation-blocking properties--could utilize Bigelow Aerospace's expandable modules for their habitation modules (with a docked or attached Dragon capsule for Earth return).
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Last edited by blackshire : 02-12-2019 at 09:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:56 PM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 5,866
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Miller
This is a very interesting topic. the last posts is probably the closest to the truth.
the Space Shuttle program made a lot of the contractors, corporate officers , executives and politicians rich.

I guess that after all of the engineering and and testing (R&D) had been done for Apollo, supplying the hardware was not that profitable. So the Space Shuttle was the new cash cow.
Yep. :-( Having created a standing army to build, support, and launch the Apollo-Saturn vehicles, NASA--and many legislators--wanted a new big program to keep the jobs and big Congressional appropriations going. (“INTRODUCTION TO FUTURE LAUNCH VEHICLE PLANS [1963 – 2001]” by Marcus Lindroos [see: http://www.pmview.com/spaceodysseyt...celvs/index.htm ] contains information on--and scale-useful drawings and illustrations of--these and other proposed reusable launch vehicles.) Also:

If I had a few billion dollars of discretionary money to devote to such an effort, I would go with a small, Faget-type straight-winged, "belly-flop reentry" low-crossrange orbiter with internal propellant tanks (so that it would be a second stage). Or I might "commission" the construction of a V-tailed, "switchblade-wing," General Dynamics FR-3A- or FR-4-like orbiter (see: http://www.pmview.com/spaceodysseyt...elvs/sld026.htm ). The booster could be either expendable (for the initial R & D flights) or a reusable VTOVL booster, like SpaceX's Falcon 9 (and Falcon Heavy) first stages/outer boosters. In fact, the orbiter could ride on the sides of two or three side-by-side stacked Falcon Heavy outer boosters (they're structurally designed for such load paths), much like a straight-winged orbiter/wing-less boosters arrangement that Grumman proposed (see the second of four Grumman Shuttle illustrations, directly below the "PHASE B PRIME LOCKHEED" green-line orbiter drawing, *here*: http://www.pmview.com/spaceodysseyt...elvs/sld036.htm , about halfway down the "screen-page").
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-15-2019, 06:24 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
BAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Needville and Shiner, TX
Posts: 5,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
(Snip- for brevity)...

Such manned planetary flyby missions, which have been referred to as "space station missions that actually go somewhere," are still timely and relevant today. No one has ever flown anywhere near so far from Earth, and missions of this kind would help to break down a big psychological barrier. (This is based on not-entirely-unwarranted concerns about long-term life-support system reliability in deep space [despite even longer-duration ISS experience], cosmic and solar radiation exposure outside the Earth's protective magnetosphere, and even isolation--with the Earth becoming just a bright star.) SpaceX's Falcon Heavy and BFR could loft such spaceships, which--due to their soft materials' superior radiation-blocking properties--could utilize Bigelow Aerospace's expandable modules for their habitation modules (with a docked or attached Dragon capsule for Earth return).



This is true... Why I like the "Gateway Station" idea... at least it gets us out of LEO.

It's good to remember just how little we've traveled beyond Earth... if we used a typical 12 inch schoolroom globe for the Earth, and basically a softball-sized Moon would be about 30 feet away. This is the farthest man has ever traveled from Earth. The space shuttle, which basically was maxed out at 360 miles, could never go more than about ONE HALF INCH above the surface of a typical 12 inch schoolroom globe! (This is the "Hubble orbit"). At this same scale, Venus would be 3,221 feet away at CLOSEST APPROACH (0.61 miles) and Mars would be 6,125 feet away (1.16 miles) at CLOSEST APPROACH. This is as close as the planets ever get to Earth, in this scale. Of course the trajectories and travel times between them make elliptical orbits a necessity, meaning basically extremely long eccentric orbits around the sun with the perihelion at Venus and aphelion at Earth (for a Venus flyby) or the perihelion at Earth and aphelion at Mars (for a Mars flyby) or the perihelion at Venus and aphelion at Mars (for a flyby of both planets).

Either way, it's a LONG trip!!!

Later! OL J R
__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-16-2019, 12:03 AM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 5,866
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke strawwalker
This is true... Why I like the "Gateway Station" idea... at least it gets us out of LEO.

It's good to remember just how little we've traveled beyond Earth... if we used a typical 12 inch schoolroom globe for the Earth, and basically a softball-sized Moon would be about 30 feet away. This is the farthest man has ever traveled from Earth. The space shuttle, which basically was maxed out at 360 miles, could never go more than about ONE HALF INCH above the surface of a typical 12 inch schoolroom globe! (This is the "Hubble orbit"). At this same scale, Venus would be 3,221 feet away at CLOSEST APPROACH (0.61 miles) and Mars would be 6,125 feet away (1.16 miles) at CLOSEST APPROACH. This is as close as the planets ever get to Earth, in this scale. Of course the trajectories and travel times between them make elliptical orbits a necessity, meaning basically extremely long eccentric orbits around the sun with the perihelion at Venus and aphelion at Earth (for a Venus flyby) or the perihelion at Earth and aphelion at Mars (for a Mars flyby) or the perihelion at Venus and aphelion at Mars (for a flyby of both planets).

Either way, it's a LONG trip!!!

Later! OL J R
I too support the "Gateway Station" (even though it may not be an ideal in-space infrastructure link for follow-on efforts to the Moon's surface and beyond) for the same reason. Also, being a substantial investment of NASA's time, money, engineering effort, and program planning (other missions that will involve it are being planned around it, and they too are "capital investments" for NASA), I don't think NASA would be likely to just abandon it--especially once it's in place--anytime soon, just as the ISS (and even MIR, which NASA was involved in) were operated/are being planned to operate for some time beyond their initially-planned "sunset dates." Also, speaking of putting our space journeys to date into (scale) perspective:

This “taped-out” and “driven-out” (out of his home state!) video (see: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCSIXLIzhzk ) does a great job of illustrating both the distances between—*and* the relative sizes of—the Sun, Venus, Earth, our Moon, Jupiter, Pluto, Proxima Centauri, Alpha Centauri A and B (including the stellar sizes and distances within that system), Sirius, and Betelgeuse (he even gave the scale velocity, and what the stars’ scale brightnesses would be). On his scale, the Sun was the size of a pea (which he also used to demonstrate occulting the solar disc, and how difficult and exacting direct imaging of extrasolar planets is, using that method).
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:07 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2019