Estes should open up a bid on e-bay for their company, and see how high it can go.

http://www.geocities.com/fredeshecter/provbid.wav

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-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (L2)
Southern California Rocket Association, NAR Section 430

So someone else feels the same as i do...wow how about that! and also has the balls to put it out ther for all to read. I am not some kid that has no idea about " how things work" so the disrespect is not needed.

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craftsman, builder of exotics

I don't think that Barry has the posting fees and related costs, but, an auction would be interesting though.

Everyone on this forum has a right to his or her own opinions, as long as they don't make it a personal attack or slander anyone.

Age means nothing, you can be mature at 12 and not mature at 21, it a individual thing in my opinion.

But, I don't think you grasp what goes on behind the scenes at any company, let alone Estes or any other rocket company.

Even the fortune 500 companies have meetings and plan on new products for months, many concepts are shelved even before their meetings. There are many factors to take into consideration on any product.

Is it unique, would a customer buy the product, are material easily obtained, what about production, what about lead times, what about shipping, what about distributors, what about retailers, what about federal regulations, what about local regulations, it goes on and on and on.

Just because a kit or kits don't come out, that doesn't mean the company doesn't care, I'm sure that there is reasons, some that can be shared and other that cannot.

Like I said before, you have a CHOICE, there are plenty of other great rocket companies around that would be more than willing to take your money for their products.

To continue to degrade Estes seems silly to me. You have a CHOICE , it's like watching TV, you have a channel changer, if you don't like whats on, just push the button.

And, let's talk about motors as well. Right now, Estes has the most motors available, thats a fact. Do you realize what the regulations are for storing, and making motors. What about the BATF regulations, local and state regulation the the massive insurance cost.

Your talking about a hugh amount of black powder, you have to look at it on a broader basis, not just a few motors.

As Fred has pointed out previously, if anyone can do better, get a business loan, make a deal with Barry to aquire the company and then see for yourself that it's not all peaches and cream.

A company can only do so much, and, lately, Estes has tried it's best to turn things around, but, constant negative comments do nothing more that to create friction.

All of the energy here could be used to teach others about the hobby, start a new club or improve on an existing one.

On the NAR section list, there are eleven (11) States that do not have sections, that was apparent when we did the Golden Scout program, many lacking states of perticipation.

If everyone of us brought just one new member into the "flock" just think how the numbers would grow.

RD in absolute fairness, you yourself have been very critical of Estes in years past - when, as a contractor, you were let go with little/no notice, and others along with you. I can't find all of your old threads/posts because they've been deleted, but many of your first posts were very critical of Estes when you first started the Rocket Doctor section. Not sure where Estes came back in favor with you but, again, this speaks highly of your character.

I think many people here have stated it, we're just tired of hollow promises from Estes. But I wholeheartedly agree, I'd like to see them around for intro rockets for the masses and motors alone. Estes serves a valuable purpose in that regard.

As for a business loan, many of us don't have enough clout with a bank to request upwards of $25M, regardless of how good your business plan might be. That and we don't know what clauses Barry is putting into the sell. Unless you're a corporation, you'd need some sizable assets simply for risk adversion, AND you'd have to have some sort of inside information to know what Estes is doing wrong - more than just promising catalogs and goods, and failing to deliver.

To make the statement I don't "grasp" what goes on behind the scenes at any company is poor wording at the very best. You don't know me how can you say that or anything like it? You see i own my own company and making money even in these hard times. So i do "understand" how things work. I could do 10 times better in the P.R. end at estes that is for sure. That is 95% of there problem. I am not"degrading" estes, just pointing out the blunders. Do you think i am unaware i can buy rockets from others? You must. I keep reading that. Wow my opinions must have hit a nerve.

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craftsman, builder of exotics

AKPilot

You are correct, I have been critical and outspoken about Estes myself, but, not for the reasons that I hear here.

I got booted off the Estes Forum for speaking up for my fellow rocketeers, they just didn't want to hear the constructive criticism, so, I went down in flames.

My goal was to be a conduit between Estes and you, their loyal customers, to imporve the product and offer suggestions for new and exciting products. It would be a win/win situation that Estes would benefit and their customers would benefit.

I was very hurt when I was "let go" on April 21,2007, but, there was more going on behind the scenes and two individuals are no longer employed at Estes over the whole situation.

The Estes Forum grew by leaps and bounds in a little over three months, we had great conveersation and covered a variety of subjects. It was a good thing for both Estes and their forum members.

The standing joke between myself and my friends at Estes was, if I hit the lottery, I would buy the place and I have my "pink slip list" ready to go. I still have that dream.

What gets me though,it seems that most all of the criticism is over one company, constant issues. Like I mentioned previously, there are many things going on in the background that affect the decisions that are being made. I'm not privy to them, but, I get the jist of what they are.

I want to see Estes prosper and get through these tough economic times, I want to see new items and for them to improve those that are still in the line, that has been my goal all along, that is part of what I did for them.

When I wrote instructions for kits, I would get all the paperwork and parts and ACTUALLY build the kit, noting any difference that I would come across. Then, write the instructions in a manner inwhich the builder would have little to no problem with the build. For example, on the Renegade two stage kit, I went as far as to have sub assemblies because of all of the fins on that kit, and, with that kit, I found that the booster fins were 1/8" oversized, and they were changed.

My comments and constructive critism was not to harass or banter Estes, rather to help them and their customers.

Barry and I have extended the olive branch, I see no reason to harbor ill feelings against Estes or anyone else that are still there. The forum issue is past history.

I am also concerned over who the new owner might be, we know what we have right now, but, we have no idea of what a new owner might do with the company. I have put my 2 cents in over that, we can only hope for the best.

The only thing that I can say is, "If I owned the company, what would I do?", I think we all should sit back and come up with our own business plan and see how we would run the company.

It's a big job, in these hard economic times, regulations and the loss of many hobby shops, it;s certainly not the 60's or 70's anymore and that's ashame.

RD

My point being, you don't know what is going on behind the scenes at Estes.
See my comments above.

I haven't deleted anything here on YORF. Set the display options when in the Ask the Doctor forum to show all messages from the beginning.

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Scott D. Hansen
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