Yet another filler thread.

I just used sanding sealer for the first time since I ordered some from Centuri as a kid in the 70's. I think it was Aerogloss. Whatever it was, it was much thinner than the Sig sanding sealer I just got at HL on clearance.

Positives:

Smells great!
Less sanding dust.
Seems to help harden balsa a little where F-n-F does nothing.
Doesn't swell balsa like water thinned F-n-F. Probably doesn't warp it either, but I haven't filled any unattached fins to find out.
Smells great!

Negatives:
Dries clear and I can't tell if I'm about to sand into wood as easily as F-n-F.
Have to use acetone or another solvent to thin and to clean the brush.
Needs more coats than F-n-F, at least from the small sampling I've done so far.
More expensive, especially considering having to use a solvent with it instead of water.
Have to use something else to fill dents.

For me, the jury is still out on whether I'll buy more when I run out. Did I mention it smells great?

__________________
I love sanding.

Why not both?

Sanding Sealer, or Minwax Wood Hardener, goes on first, to harden the wood and seal the deepest pits.

The FnF goes on after the sanding sealer has been thoroughly dried and sanded. Not as much is required because the wood is less porous.

All I ever used was sanding sealer my first time around. As a BAR, after hearing all the devotees of Fill and Finish on this board, I tried it. After using it on a few models, I've figured out I had it right the first time.

I can't stand the mess sanding Fill and Finish makes. Just way too much dust. I prefer any formula of sanding sealer to it, and only use it straight out of the bottle without any thinners. I have a tiny bottle of thinner to clean my brush after using it. It lasts for quite a long time.

YMMV

__________________
"AND I hope they are from the planet of the "Chunk spunky Mary-Lou Retton clones". - Ironnerd

"Those who trade liberty for security have neither" - Benjamin Franklin

"Semroc is almost always the answer" - Stefanj

www.paulsavia.com

www.soundclick.com/paulsavia

I use SIG Sanding Sealer, and it does take more coats than I recall applying, when I used to use AeroGloss brand. I use regular acetone to thin, and to clean brushes. I use a small bottle to clean the brush, and when it gets to be time to get fresh cleaner, I dump this acetone into the bottle of sanding sealer, since it invariably dries out a bit and needs to be thinned.

It is expensive, but I use a 40% discount coupon to buy it at Hobby Lobby, so overall, maybe not a bad deal.

It dries so fast that I do not really mind doing extra coats, I just make periodic runs down to the shop. Like tonight, when I am not really into Army Wives with my wife, but keeping her company, sort of. I'm on the computer sitting in the family room, with dashes to the shop every few commercial breaks ...

__________________
Lee Reep
NAR 55948

Projects: Semroc Saturn 1B, Ken Foss Designs Mini Satellite Interceptor
In the Paint Shop: Nothing! Too cold!
Launch-Ready: Farside-X, Maxi Honest John, Super Scamp

I love Aerogloss sealer, but obviously there are many ways to finish fins. My last two builds, Avenger and Phoenix used two different methods of filling. The end results, both rockets had smooth grain free fins. The Avenger used 3 coats of balsa sealer and the Phoenix used 2 coats of primer directly on the laser cut sheet.
I sand the balsa until smooth then apply another coat of sealer. What the sealer does not fill, the primer will take care of the rest.

If it wasn't for the smell--I would not have a reason to live.

__________________
Never trust an atom. They make up everything.

4 out of 3 people struggle with math.

Chemically, alcohol IS a solution.

NAR# 94042
SAM# 0078

Agree regarding the mess using Fill-n-finish. It is totally AWFUL compared to sanding sealer.
Finish one decent sized rocket with that stuff and the whole shop is full of micronized dust.
One CAN use sanding sealer alone, but the BEST way to use it is 1-2 coats over 2-3 coats of Balsa Fillercoat.
The fillercoat does a much better job in filling than the sanding sealer does, with the sealer used on top of the fillercoat to give a hard and smooth finish for topcoating with your choice of color paint.
Fillercoat is getting a little harder to find now; the BEST source is direct through Brodak, which seems to use a formulation of all their dopes that is about equivalent to the old Pactra Aerogloss stuff. Brodak is actually repackaged full-scale aircraft Randolph dope.

I still use new-old-stock Pactra Aero Gloss mainly as I have several Quart, Pint and half-pint cans of Balsa Fillercoat, Sanding Sealer, and most all colors of Aero Gloss as well.

I did keep a can of fill-n-finish around for filling large dents/imperfections in balsa parts due to the fact that Aero Gloss Plastic Balsa in the tube is IMPOSSIBLE to find now. I have now switched to solvent-based Plastic Wood as it is very similar to the old Aero Gloss stuff, and makes far less sanding mess. Plastic Wood is compatible with Butyrate Dope direct topcoating whereas fill-n-finish is NOT.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

That is the exact thing I keep mine around for. If I get a gouge in a nose cone of fin, I'll use it to fill it.

Actually, I don't use as much sanding sealer as I once did, not what I paper nearly all of my fins. I use it almost exclusively for nose cones.

__________________
"AND I hope they are from the planet of the "Chunk spunky Mary-Lou Retton clones". - Ironnerd

"Those who trade liberty for security have neither" - Benjamin Franklin

"Semroc is almost always the answer" - Stefanj

www.paulsavia.com

www.soundclick.com/paulsavia

I guess I'm in the Carpenter's Wood Filler BAR minority here.
Here's my list of F-N-F positives and negatives:

Positives:
I can brush it on indoors
No strong smell
Doesn't load up sandpaper
Water clean up
Much less expensive
Easy to find for purchase
One coat (rarely two) fills balsa
Can easily tell when I sand through to the surface
Can use CWF to fill body tube seams and launch lug fillet gaps

Negatives
Dust
Can warp thin balsa, usually painting the other side remeoves any warp
I miss the sanding sealer smell

I remember reading that someone recommended thinning down Sig sanding Sealer.
I bought Sig sealer one time and ended up throwing it out. It was too hard to sand. Maybe if I'd thinned it out I might of had better results.
The price for AeroGloss sealer is just too high for me!

Sanding Sealer can warp thin balsa. Again painting over the other side conteracts the curve. I was told years ago that dope finishes take a long time to cure and continue to shrink. Tissue / dope built-up wings can warp over time.

__________________
Hans "Chris" Michielssen
Old/New NAR # 19086 SR

www.oddlrockets.com
www.modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com
http://www.nar.org/educational-reso...ing-techniques/
Your results may vary
"Nose cones roll, be careful with that."
Every spaceman needs a ray gun.
Look out - I'm the Meister Shyster!

I'm going to list my positives/negatives for Sanding Sealer and Balsa Fillercoat

Positives
-Absolutely CAN use indoors; has that good "olde tyme" scent which can be fanned outdoors through a window if one is afraid of a little organic vapor.
-Makes little mess when sanded that can be easily swept up by a vacuum even in a living room of a condo. Try that with F-N-F.
-Dries MUCH faster than any of that water based CRAP.
-Thins with a REAL high VOC content thinner that makes Commiefornians cringe (Yes, that IS a PLUS)
-Actually PENETRATES the wood to ADD strength.
-Is much lighter than that F-n-F BUNK, while ADDING a strengthened hard substrate for paint that requires ZERO primer.
-Much LESS likely to warp fins than any water-based GUFF when used properly.

Negatives:
-Costs a few pennies more per rocket, but is pretty cheap if one orders a Pint of each from Brodak
-Can't fill tube spirals with dope, but that is a HUGE WASTE OF TIME with ANYTHING anyway unless one is trying for some "show finish" award.
-Can't use for making fillets. Most everyone knows it is better to make smooth single-pass fillets with epoxy over EVERYTHING else as they actually add strength and require no sanding while adding LITTLE weight if done PROPERLY.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !