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  #91  
Old 11-20-2009, 09:21 PM
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Mark II Mark II is offline
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Several important points to remember here. First, Estes-Cox is not the only source of kits for hobbyists by a long shot. And they do have a lot of kits in active production now. There are many great companies out there that are producing outstanding kits. It's a really great time to be involved in model rocketry; we are all very fortunate. So if Estes-Cox is experiencing delays in getting out some previously announced new kits, our segment of the market is hardly being deprived. Hey, if they need more time to get some new kits to market, that's OK with me; I can wait. In the meantime, I have other kits to buy, including other Estes kits that already are in the retail channel. Remember, this thread is supposed to be about new Estes motors, after all. I will continue to need the motors that Estes produces for the happily foreseeable future. I'm not going anywhere - I'll still be here and I will still be shopping for new items a year from now or whenever the new products reach the stores. Really, it's no big deal. I'll give the new stuff serious consideration whenever it reaches me. Any unforeseen delays won't change that.

MarkII
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  #92  
Old 11-21-2009, 08:40 AM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
Ken,

Either I missed the point of your original post or you've missed the point of mine. No where in my post did I "bash" or complain about any company. However, I said that you have no right to tell other members of this forum that they shouldn't voice their opinion, decide how they should spend their time or how important their hobby is to them. Go back and read your post I quoted.

I doubt there are many folks on this forum loosing sleep over anything related to our hobby (well, okay, I do sometimes when I'm getting ready for a competition with Launch Crue.... ). But, there are things that just frustrate people and this forum gives them a chance to vent that frustration. Call it "Estes Bashing" if you want. But you'll see other posts concerning Semroc and the Saturn V, Quest and the 24mm Fs, Sherri's HotRockets and the, well, I digress.

The point is, if you're tired of it all, don't read the posts. I don't read post that I particularly don't care for. I've even got some posters in my ignore list because I place no value upon anything they post. But I sure don't go around telling others not to read posts. It's their opinions, it's their time, it's their hobby. Each person enjoys each aspect the way they want to. I don't go around telling people they need to get over it. When they're over it, the post will stop.

As for what I've done to promote the hobby........obviously, not enough.....



Don

My point is, I brought to the forum the names of four rockets, whenever they get here, we will have to live with that.

There is nothing we can do about it, if they come out fine and if they dont oh well.

I guess we both missed each others point.

All of us here on the forum have the right to our own opinions, that what is good about it.

In these hard economic times I just hope that the hobby can make it through another 50 years.

Ken
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  #93  
Old 11-21-2009, 08:41 AM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
I wish I could clone an A10-0T and the biggie, fly it at a sanctioned launch...


Bill



Please, don;t try to clone motors, this is not being suggested here, leave the motor manufacturing up to the professionals and let's keep our hobby SAFE.
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  #94  
Old 11-21-2009, 08:43 AM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Provided that you only used them yourself and not at group launches, A10-0T clones could be made using sugar/KNO3 propellant, clay for the nozzles, and motor cases made of convolutely-wound gummed wrapping paper.



NO, NO, NO don't even try to clone motors, leave that up to the professionals, let's keep our hobby SAFE.
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  #95  
Old 11-21-2009, 02:29 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Doctor
NO, NO, NO don't even try to clone motors, leave that up to the professionals, let's keep our hobby SAFE.


...Which is why I included the provision about only using them if flying by oneself. Where I live, there are places I can fly rockets where there are no people or buildings anywhere within a 10 mile radius, and there are others who have such isolated launch sites.

While I'm not particularly interested in making sugar propellant A10-0T clones myself (sugar rocket motors are labor-intensive to make, even in batches of 20 or so, see: http://balloons.space.edu/ndra/nickle.html ), small sugar motors aren't particularly dangerous to either make or use, although it takes some practice to get uniform impulse in a batch of the motors. They can be made as zero-delay booster motors or have time delays and ejection charges.

Although they are core burners (by necessity, as the sugar propellant has a rather low specific impulse), they can be electrically ignited just like black powder motors. A sugar A10-0T CATO is no worse than a black powder A10-0T CATO, except for the possible emotional impact of watching the extra "sweat equity" that the maker invested in producing the motor go up in smoke.

There is nothing wrong with informed and prudently cautious adults making small rocket motors, especially non-black powder ones such as sugar motors. After all, if Orville Carlisle had not experimented with making his own rocket motors (and black powder ones, at that!), would our hobby ever have come into being?
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Last edited by blackshire : 11-21-2009 at 08:43 PM. Reason: This ol' hoss done forgot somethin'.
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  #96  
Old 11-22-2009, 02:27 PM
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Bill Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Doctor
Please, don;t try to clone motors, this is not being suggested here, leave the motor manufacturing up to the professionals and let's keep our hobby SAFE.


My comment was in response to your statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Doctor
You can always make your own clone.........

This subject have been around so long, it's like beating a dead horse, it solves nothing.


Though I agree that this horse has probably been processed into glue and used to build rockets by now.

I would never consider making my own black powder motors. I value my fingers and eyes too much to take that risk. However, I can forsee a day when we can cast small motors using a potassium perchlorate mixture (a NAR EX program?). You might say that I look forward to the day when we can shout, "I love the smell of PP in the morning!" :-)


Bill
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  #97  
Old 11-22-2009, 08:41 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
I would never consider making my own black powder motors. I value my fingers and eyes too much to take that risk. However, I can forsee a day when we can cast small motors using a potassium perchlorate mixture (a NAR EX program?). You might say that I look forward to the day when we can shout, "I love the smell of PP in the morning!" :-)


Bill


An intriguing idea! This is similar to a concept Aerojet had in the 1960s for huge rocket motors powered by a gelled solid propellant that would be loaded at the launch pad. To avoid the problems of moving multi-million pound loaded solid propellant stages, they proposed moving and stacking only the empty cases.

At the launch pad, tanker trucks containing gelled solid propellant would pump it into the launch vehicle's motor cases and the propellant would cure in the motors at the pad. I don't recall how they proposed to remove the mandrels that formed the motors' grain voids. They might have been considering using low-melting point alloys or some kind of frangible, thin-walled mandrel material.

For model rocket use, a potassium perchlorate/RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanizing) liquid rubber mixture could be supplied in plastic applicator tubes (similar to caulking gun cartridges), with replaceable plastic static mixer tips on the applicator gun. If the propellant is loaded into cardboard sleeves for installation in reloadable motor cases, a set of different reusable mandrels could be supplied to permit the user to tailor the grain void shapes and thus the thrust/time characteristics of the motors.
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