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  #31  
Old 07-26-2021, 04:41 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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I saw a color photograph of that believed-to-be-cheating CRV7 tower shot on the cover of an issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology; I'm sure they chose it because it was so spectacular! The CRV7 is externally identical (with the possible exception of length; the CRV7 may be slightly longer) to the HYDRA-70 (MK66 rocket motor) FFAR (Folding-Fin Aerial [or Aircraft] Rocket), which has three conformal fins. Both rockets use the same unitary warheads and cargo warhead cases (which also fit the old MK4 and MK40 FFARs), but the CRV7 uses composite solid propellant, while the HYDRA-70 uses a less energetic double-base solid propellant. Also:

The retired CRV7s would make great air-launched Rockair sounding rockets (the original U.S. Navy Rockairs, flown during the IGY [International Geophysical Year, an 18-month "year" between mid-1957 and the end of 1958], used MK4 FFARs). The U.S. Air Force's version, spelled Rockaire, used a JATO rocket motor housed in a cylindrical, finned body with a nose cone; Rockaires were fired from F-86D Sabres. The CRV7/HYDRA-70 cargo warhead cases are ready-to-use instrument housings; their plastic nose cones are even RF-transparent, usable for transmitting and/or command-receiving payloads (I helped the Poker Flat Research Range get some HYDRA-70 rockets about twenty years ago), and existing (and/or payload user-made) boosted dart payloads could also be air-launched or ground-launched aboard surplus CRV7 rockets.
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  #32  
Old 10-09-2021, 07:24 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuse Eh!
Just dropping into this thread once again to bring an update about the CRV7, everyone's favourite Canuckian ground attack rocket from yesteryear (mentioned earlier in this thread and in a couple of others that I could find). According to an article from CBC news today, the Canadian government is now looking to decommission our remaining stock of over 80,000 surplus rockets!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sask...ocket-1.6104294

Okay, to be honest, I wasn't really all that familiar with the CRV7; so of course I did a quick Google search. I didn't find much detailed info; but the Wikipedia article on the CRV7 was both informative... and entertaining:

"The CRV7 had just been introduced into Royal Canadian Air Force service when it was entered as a part of a general competition in France. One part of the competition required the contestants to hit a tower with unarmed rockets. The Canadian pilot hit it on his first try, but aimed as if firing the much lower-powered Mk 40 and was therefore close enough that the rocket motor was still firing. The remaining unburned propellant shattered allowing more surface area of the rocket motor to burn, in turn increasing the pressure and rate of combustion to a speed that was no longer considered burning but was now a deflagration and destroyed the tower, and the pilot was disqualified because the judges refused to believe it was unarmed."

Yep, yet another outstanding example of the highest and best traditions of our Canadian Forces at work and at play, at home and abroad -- total destruction by noon or the next trip to Timmies is on us.

You can access the Wikipedia article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRV7
I have been "lobbying" Canada's Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, to not de-mil (destroy--what they're currently doing) the CRV7 rockets, but to instead make them available--(or even sell them for reasonable prices)--to qualified scientific agencies and universities, in Canada and abroad, so that they could be used for low-cost scientific research and for associated academic training (providing hands-on experience to budding astronautical engineers, space scientists, and space science project administrators). Also:

I pointed out how sounding rockets use--and always have used--surplus military missile and artillery rocket solid propellant (and [in earlier messages to the Canadian Armed Forces] occasionally liquid propellant; Re: the V-2, Bullpup-Cajun, Bullpup-Apache, etc.) rocket motors and airframe hardware whenever possible in order to minimize their costs, and I pointed out that air-launched CRV7 rockets could reach space, or come very close to it (such air-launched, instrumented FFARs--Folding-Fin Aerial Rockets, ancestors of the CRV7--were launched during the 18-month July 1957 - December 1958 IGY [International Geophysical Year]). If more people--especially Canadians--suggested this to him, perhaps he would rescind this waste of scientifically useful rocket hardware. Below are his contact information (his postal mail address, facsimile [fax] number, and e-mail address), and my messages to him:

****************************************

TO: Prime Minister | Premier Ministre<PM@pm.gc.ca> and Harjit Sajjan<DND_MND@forces.gc.ca>;


Dear Mr. Wentworth:

On behalf of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, I would like to acknowledge receipt of your correspondence. I regret the delay in replying.

Thank you for sharing your concerns with the Prime Minister. You may be assured that your comments have been carefully reviewed.

I have taken the liberty of forwarding your email to the Honorable Harjit Sajjan, Minister of National Defence, so that he may be made aware of your correspondence.

Once again, thank you for writing.


K. Bentsen
Executive Correspondence Officer / Agente de correspondance
Executive Correspondence Services / Services de la correspondance
de la haute direction


>>> From : blackshire@alaska.net Received : 17 Aug 2021 04:15:19 AM >>>

>>> Subject : PM Web Site Comments - Innovation, Science and Economic Development >>>>

Subject/Sujet : Innovation, Science and Economic Development
Date : 2021/08/17 8:15:07 AM
First Name/Prénom : James
Last Name/Nom : Wentworth
E-Mail/Adresse électronique : blackshire@alaska.net
Address/Adresse : 330 3rd Ave., Apt 206
City/Ville : Fairbanks
Province : Outside Canada
Postal Code/Code postal : Y1A0A3
Telephone/Téléphone : (907) 457-3059
Comments/Commentaires : Hello Mr. Prime Minister (My apologies for having to
'fudge' the Postal Code, as I'm in Alaska, ZIP Code 99701-4851),

I am a published spaceflight historian, and some years ago I was the
volunteer historian for the Poker Flat Research Range, the sounding rocket
launch facility located 48 kilometers north of Fairbanks, Alaska, where I
live. I recently learned-from a Canadian member of "Ye Olde Rocket
Forum" (a model rocketry and spaceflight history online forum of which
I'm also a member)-that the Canadian Armed Forces are withdrawing from
service (and destroying) the CRV7 unguided 70 mm diameter FFAR (Folding-Fin
Aircraft [or Aerial] Rocket). Our quite similar--but somewhat
shorter-range--withdrawn Mk 40 and HYDRA-70 FFARs have been, and are, used
for scientific purposes, as inexpensive small sounding rockets and to
calibrate the tracking radars at sounding rocket ranges. I am writing to you
to make a request:

Could you rescind the 'destroy' order for the CRV7 rockets, and make them
available to qualified Canadian, U.S., and other nations' space agencies (and
to universities that conduct upper atmosphere and space research with
sounding rockets)? Destroying them is a colossal waste, a huge scientific and
educational opportunity squandered (most sounding rockets, in fact, use
military surplus rocket motors). Because the CRV7 (like all FFARs) can be
launched from fighter jets, they can, and have, reached space (the U.S. Navy
did this during the International Geophysical Year; the only reason why they
weren't used much was because late 1950s electronics weren't nearly as
miniaturized as today's).

Many thanks in advance for your help.


Sincerely Yours,


James *Jason* Wentworth

****************************************

https://pm.gc.ca/en/connect/contact
Your message has been successfully submitted.

Thank you for sharing your feedback with the Prime Minister. We greatly value the input of Canadians as our Government works to build a better Canada.

Please note: Our service standard is to respond to English and French inquiries only.

Main ContentBrowser not supported

This website is not compatible with Internet Explorer or older version of Microsoft Edge(version 78 and older).

For full functionality please use a supported browser.
Contact the Prime MinisterThe Prime Minister greatly values the thoughts and suggestions of Canadians. You may write or fax his office at:


Office of the Prime Minister
80 Wellington Street
Ottawa, ON K1A 0A2

Fax: 613-941-6900



From: blackshire@alaska.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 12:14 AM
To: J. Jason Wentworth
Subject: Prime Minister Trudeau msg.

Hello Mr. Prime Minister (My apologies for having to "fudge" the Postal Code, as I'm in Alaska, ZIP Code 99701-4851),

I am a published spaceflight historian, and some years ago I was the volunteer historian for the Poker Flat Research Range, the sounding rocket launch facility located 48 kilometers north of Fairbanks, Alaska, where I live. I recently learned—from a Canadian member of “Ye Olde Rocket Forum” (a model rocketry and spaceflight history online forum of which I’m also a member)—that the Canadian Armed Forces are withdrawing from service (and destroying) the CRV7 unguided 70 mm diameter FFAR (Folding-Fin Aircraft [or Aerial] Rocket). Our quite similar--but somewhat shorter-range--withdrawn Mk 40 and HYDRA-70 FFARs have been, and are, used for scientific purposes, as inexpensive small sounding rockets and to calibrate the tracking radars at sounding rocket ranges. I am writing to you to make a request:

Could you rescind the "destroy" order for the CRV7 rockets, and make them available to qualified Canadian, U.S., and other nations' space agencies (and to universities that conduct upper atmosphere and space research with sounding rockets)? Destroying them is a colossal waste, a huge scientific and educational opportunity squandered (most sounding rockets, in fact, use military surplus rocket motors). Because the CRV7 (like all FFARs) can be launched from fighter jets, they can, and have, reached space (the U.S. Navy did this during the International Geophysical Year; the only reason why they weren't used much was because late 1950s electronics weren't nearly as miniaturized as today's).

Many thanks in advance for your help.


Sincerely Yours,


James *Jason* Wentworth
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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  #33  
Old 10-09-2021, 09:28 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ez2cDave
Bobby Hamill is THE "Guru", when it comes to BLACK BRANT data . . . He appears in the first image.

Dave F.
Dave, what is the correct length of BT-55 (*not* counting the short section used in the Estes kit to create the antennas-equipped [three toothpicks] payload cylinder immediately behind the conical nose) for a four-finned Black Brant IIB model? (The appropriate length of BT-55 could be added to [or cut off from] the "stock" length of BT-55 in the Estes kit, as needed.) It would be easy to build the Estes Black Brant II kit--even down to the paint scheme and the included decals--to depict either variant.

Many thanks in advance for your help!
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #34  
Old 10-09-2021, 10:51 AM
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Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Dave, what is the correct length of BT-55 (*not* counting the short section used in the Estes kit to create the antennas-equipped [three toothpicks] payload cylinder immediately behind the conical nose) for a four-finned Black Brant IIB model? (The appropriate length of BT-55 could be added to [or cut off from] the "stock" length of BT-55 in the Estes kit, as needed.) It would be easy to build the Estes Black Brant II kit--even down to the paint scheme and the included decals--to depict either variant.

Many thanks in advance for your help!


Several different Payload Cylinder designs were used on the BLACK BRANT II, some with antennas, some without, different lengths, etc, etc, etc.

To recreate the BBII Payload section ( as used in the prototype for the Estes kit, the FSI kit, and virtually every other BBII kit ) in BT-55 ( Scale 1 : 12.9871698113 ), the Lower Section w/o Antennas would be .5389934914" in length. The Antenna Section would have a length of 1.89109716411" . . . The TOTAL length of the Payload Section would be 2.43009065551".

The photo and fin drawing below are for a 4-fin BB-IIA ( The fins are NOT the same as a 3-fin BB-II )

NOTE : The diameter of the BLACK BRANT II is 17.208".

Sketch below !

Dave
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Last edited by Ez2cDave : 10-11-2021 at 08:11 PM.
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  #35  
Old 10-09-2021, 10:35 PM
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Fuse Eh! Fuse Eh! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
I have been "lobbying" Canada's Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, to not de-mil (destroy--what they're currently doing) the CRV7 rockets, but to instead make them available--(or even sell them for reasonable prices)--to qualified scientific agencies and universities, in Canada and abroad, so that they could be used for low-cost scientific research and for associated academic training (providing hands-on experience to budding astronautical engineers, space scientists, and space science project administrators)...


Now THAT is a great idea; and likely much better than my secret wish that CTI (Cesaroni Technology Incorporated) would get wind of the destruction order and offer to buy the remaining stock out. Mind you, Ottawa could certainly use the extra money; after all, we just spent about $600 million on our rather useless federal election. But more to the point, consider just how many Newton seconds of total impulse a repurposed CRV7 motor might provide... and consequently, what certification level might one require to launch such a reduce/reuse/recycle marvel?!

So, yeah, I heartily endorse your idea and thank you for taking the initiative!!!
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Last edited by Fuse Eh! : 10-09-2021 at 10:44 PM. Reason: clarity
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