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  #51  
Old 11-21-2022, 03:31 PM
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BEC BEC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgegassaway
By selling direct, Estes does not have to do the DEEP discount they have to give to dealers.

Although, I thought I saw some mention of rocket dealers who ware supposed to carry it.

As for Musk and model rockets, I am pretty sure I read about, long ago, that he took his kids out to fly some models at one of the well known lakebed launch sites in California or otherwise out West.

And of course, for a few years, SpaceX directly sold their own Falcon-9 kits, made by a "Grade B" kitmaker (tube not so great, I heard. Never got one).

They weren't that bad, really. The first Falcon 9/Dragon was a little difficult in that you had to apply a full length body wrap to a rather thicker-than-necessary body tube. That version was later re-released with a thinner BT that was already wrapped. This was a simple-to-build and decently performing model.

The later one, with the big payload section, was better, and had a 24mm mount.

From some of the details in the kits (the second version of the Falcon-9/Dragon, which was the only one I've built) I'm quite certain the supplier is modelrockets.us. Some parts of their kits are pretty distinctive: a very nicely-made motor hook, parachutes of a thicker-than-usual plastic sheet with very bright colors and a unique shroud line material, for example. The Falcon-9/Dragon that I built clearly shared those parts with other modelrockets.us releases.
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  #52  
Old 12-11-2022, 02:12 PM
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I've got a SpaceX Falcon 9 with Dragon Crew capsule from Boyce Aerospace. Yes, you have to buy some of the parts separately, but the 3D printed parts are really good quality. Layer lines are so tight I didn't even bother to sand them (as recommended). And the cost maybe half that of the Estes one (after getting additional parts). It's not RTF, you have to build and finish it so it meets the requirements most of us want from a model rocket (build and finish/detail). I flew it for the first time last month. I'm going to be flying it more often. Satisfies another requirement (fly it).

With that said, I pulled the trigger and bought the Estes RTF version (using the 10% off coupon that was so graciously provided by a fellow YORFer). No, I'm not going to fly it. My 1/89th scale from Boyce fills that niche perfectly. I probably won't even open it. I bought it because I know that in 5 years I'll be kicking myself in the butt for NOT buying it when I had the chance. And now, my collection of 1/100 scale manned space flight vehicles continues. Unfortunately, Artemis is a 1/200 scale. But I've got one that I can use to build 1/100 scale. Anyone know whereI can get 1/100 space shuttle system.....
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  #53  
Old 12-11-2022, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barone
I've got a SpaceX Falcon 9 with Dragon Crew capsule from Boyce Aerospace. Yes, you have to buy some of the parts separately, but the 3D printed parts are really good quality. Layer lines are so tight I didn't even bother to sand them (as recommended). And the cost maybe half that of the Estes one (after getting additional parts). It's not RTF, you have to build and finish it so it meets the requirements most of us want from a model rocket (build and finish/detail). I flew it for the first time last month. I'm going to be flying it more often. Satisfies another requirement (fly it).

With that said, I pulled the trigger and bought the Estes RTF version (using the 10% off coupon that was so graciously provided by a fellow YORFer). No, I'm not going to fly it. My 1/89th scale from Boyce fills that niche perfectly. I probably won't even open it. I bought it because I know that in 5 years I'll be kicking myself in the butt for NOT buying it when I had the chance. And now, my collection of 1/100 scale manned space flight vehicles continues. Unfortunately, Artemis is a 1/200 scale. But I've got one that I can use to build 1/100 scale. Anyone know whereI can get 1/100 space shuttle system.....


I believe Matt Steele (NCR) is close to releasing their 1:125 Scale mid-powered SLS Kit and their sport Scale mid-powered Argo D-4 Javelin Kit.
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  #54  
Old 12-13-2022, 02:18 PM
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I went ahead and purchased one of the Estes Falcons - basically just to add to my 1/100th static display. It does help demonstrate just how big the Falcon 9 is - as tall as the Saturn 1B, and simply dwarfs the Gemini-Titan (that's a really cool thing about same-scale displays - it dramatically demonstrates how things have changed over the years). It is a fairly nice and detailed model (although - unlike the Saturn V and 1B - I'm not as up to speed on the intricacies of the Falcon 9 to readily spot scale errors).
The box the Falcon 9 comes in is serious overkill - probably added ~10% to the price - and yet isn't suitable for displaying the model.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerHawk
I believe Matt Steele (NCR) is close to releasing their 1:125 Scale mid-powered SLS Kit and their sport Scale mid-powered Argo D-4 Javelin Kit.


That might interest me - after getting my high-power certs I've become less and less interested in anything with less than a 29mm mount.
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  #55  
Old 12-13-2022, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerHawk
I believe Matt Steele (NCR) is close to releasing their 1:125 Scale mid-powered SLS Kit and their sport Scale mid-powered Argo D-4 Javelin Kit.


The Javelin has been out for a while, at least, you could order one.

https://northcoastrocketry.com/prod...ecember-15-2020
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  #56  
Old 12-13-2022, 05:32 PM
Scott_650 Scott_650 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerHawk
I believe Matt Steele (NCR) is close to releasing their 1:125 Scale mid-powered SLS Kit and their sport Scale mid-powered Argo D-4 Javelin Kit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
The Javelin has been out for a while, at least, you could order one.

https://northcoastrocketry.com/prod...ecember-15-2020


Wolf - Tigerhawk is probably referring to the lower priced, “semi-scale” version of the Argo-Javelin that Matt has talked about since the $500 kit was released.

I know it makes more sense marketing and sales -wise but of all the future products Matt has spoken of since NARCON and last year’s NARAM I wish we were seeing the rerelease of the NCR 4” kits - especially the Quasar
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  #57  
Old 01-25-2023, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
My experience with these scale RTF offerings from Estes is limited to the Saturn V. It was kind of fun to fly, but the C6-3 doesn't boost it very well. The first flight was familiar sort of under-powered looping flight that had me imagining $50 worth of small plastic bits for me to pick up, but the parachute came out after a 1-2 heart pounding seconds. I never bothered to burn one of those Quest motors to see if it flew any better. I flew it twice and now it sits among all the other clutter on my work bench.

What did I expect? Pretty much what I got. I'll fly it again sometime. I still have some leftover D21 motors. For the $50 price tag, I think I would pass. I didn't get the SLS or Blue Origin because, even though the subject matter is very interesting, the execution is probably more of the same "RTF" experience. That doesn't mean at all that these products "suck" or that they are "a rip off." They just don't offer the kind of rocketry experience that I look for in model rocketry.

So now here is the Falcon 9, another injection molded RTF product that seems to offer the same "RTF" experience. Having recent experience with these kinds of models combined the inflated price tag sticks in my craw. Triple the price? Clearly there is something different here. I finally read Thomas Beach's product review in the Nov/Dec 2022 issue of Sport Rocketry. I was hoping that his review might reveal that there might be more than meets the eye here. But no. "The flight was stable and the model landed near the launch pads..." The model does have a cardboard inner lining, which is nice. Thomas had a photo of the 1:100 Falcon 9 displayed with other 1:100 scale models, and it was a pretty sight. This is probably the best use for the Falcon 9 - a display model. It is a very good looking scale model. I'm sure that Estes and SpaceX will sell all of them.

The clear plastic fin unit that comes with the Saturn V is available separately from Estes, and makes for a ready-made clear fin unit for any modeler who wants to build finless scale models. That's a nice spinoff from these RTF products. I imagined using one to build a sport scale Thor missile.


Agree... not really interested in RTF at this point. I'd rather scratch build, and considering kit prices, that's mostly what I do. I'll get around to my own Falcon 9 at some point.

I got in on the special price they had on the Estes Saturn V years ago ($99 bucks IIRC) and ended up with two-- the one they sent the morons delivered it and left it on the front steps in a full-on monsoon rain-- we were in Indiana and my nephew who was living with us at the time called me after work when he got home and finally saw it, asked what to do... I had him bring it in, open the box, and stand all the tubes up over the heater vents in various parts of the house to dry them out. I called whomever I bought it from that was doing the specials at the time and they sent me another kit free, which was delivered PROPERLY. I managed to salvage the one with little/no apparent damage, the tubes were dry when we got home a week later as they'd had plenty of heater cycles blowing warm air up the tubes to dry. Who knows about the longevity though...

Anyway, not really interested in RTF. Not really interested in ANY rocket at $150 bucks +, I know my craftsmanship skills and I can do better at a lower price in the end, even if it takes me longer... Oh well...
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  #58  
Old 01-25-2023, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdracer
I went ahead and purchased one of the Estes Falcons - basically just to add to my 1/100th static display. It does help demonstrate just how big the Falcon 9 is - as tall as the Saturn 1B, and simply dwarfs the Gemini-Titan (that's a really cool thing about same-scale displays - it dramatically demonstrates how things have changed over the years). It is a fairly nice and detailed model (although - unlike the Saturn V and 1B - I'm not as up to speed on the intricacies of the Falcon 9 to readily spot scale errors).
The box the Falcon 9 comes in is serious overkill - probably added ~10% to the price - and yet isn't suitable for displaying the model.


Makes sense, since the Falcon 9 is basically a modern reincarnation of the Saturn I-B... if they had replaced the Saturn IB's "Cluster's last stand" of 8 Redstone size tanks surrounding a Jupiter size tank first stage with a 260 inch diameter stage using a single LOX and RP-1 tank similar to Saturn V, with the intertank, and kept using the S-IVB for the upper stage, it would have been rather similar to Falcon 9... only using 8 H-1 engines instead of 9 Merlins on the first stage, and a single hydrogen burning J-2S instead of the kerosene burning Merlin Vac engine on the Falcon 9. The liftoff thrust is similar and with a hydrogen powered upper stage the performance capability to orbit would be similar. BUT the Falcon 9 wasn't built for all-out maximum performance, it was designed for lowest-cost, particularly on the second stage which is thrown away, and for reuse on the first stage. Having a kerosene upper stage, while it hits the performance capability somewhat, is MUCH easier than messing with liquid hydrogen and reduces the size of the rocket, plus it greatly simplifies the GSE servicing the rocket and filling its propellant tanks. Plus if they wanted to switch to a hydrogen burning upper stage at some point it would give a nice performance increase due to the added specific impulse of hydrogen propellant over kerosene.
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