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Old 02-15-2011, 07:07 PM
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Default Exit Pluto, enter Tyche?

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Old 02-16-2011, 06:43 AM
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:13 PM
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Agreed that it will be hard to prove that Tyche exists until someone manages to capture it moving across the star field.

What caught my eye is the possibility the IAU may deny it planetary status because it was formed elsewhere and captured by our solar system. I can understand the debate over whether Pluto is a planet or an asteroid, but I never knew a planet had to be native-born to count.


Bill
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
Agreed that it will be hard to prove that Tyche exists until someone manages to capture it moving across the star field.

What caught my eye is the possibility the IAU may deny it planetary status because it was formed elsewhere and captured by our solar system. I can understand the debate over whether Pluto is a planet or an asteroid, but I never knew a planet had to be native-born to count.
Well, if Hawaii will issue a certificate of live birth, I'm sure the IAU will allow it

Doug

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Old 02-16-2011, 04:28 PM
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I still await incontrovertible proof that all the planets within our solar system were formed exclusively from local accretion. Show me the images of panetary formation within our little corner of this galaxy and I will bow to the superior intellect of the IAU.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:56 PM
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I still await incontrovertible proof that all the planets within our solar system were formed exclusively from local accretion. Show me the images of panetary formation within our little corner of this galaxy and I will bow to the superior intellect of the IAU.


Agreed.
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:28 PM
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
Well, if Hawaii will issue a certificate of live birth, I'm sure the IAU will allow it



Bull sessions back in college covered a number of subjects. One of my favorites has to be what I like to call "polisci-fi," how a difference in one incident might alter the course of history. One of the scenarios we discussed involved a different Barry for president, Barry "nuke 'em 'til they glow" Goldwater.

Suppose that something just before the election of 1964 caused to nation's attention to focus on the fight against Communism, say, China pouring massive numbers of troops into Vietnam like they did in Korea a decade earlier.

Goldwater defeats Johnson. Then suppose the Supreme Court ruled that Goldwater did not qualify to be the president because he was born in Arizona before it became a state.

Who would be the president? William Miller, Goldwater's running mate? The Speaker of the House? Lyndon Johnson? Nelson Rockefeller who Goldwater defeated late in the Republican primary process? VP Miller serving in the interim until a special election can be held? The House of Representatives selecting the replacement president (and the Senate the VP?)

And what would happen to all of the bills Goldwater had signed? Any treaties he negotiated? Appointments he made? All null and void? Would Congress have to repass legislation or does the new president just have to sign the originals to make them valid (and what if he chose not to sign some of them?) We were not constitutional experts by a long shot, but someone today who is can probably write an interesting book about just such a circumstance.


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Old 02-16-2011, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
Bull sessions back in college covered a number of subjects. One of my favorites has to be what I like to call "polisci-fi," how a difference in one incident might alter the course of history. One of the scenarios we discussed involved a different Barry for president, Barry "nuke 'em 'til they glow" Goldwater.

Suppose that something just before the election of 1964 caused to nation's attention to focus on the fight against Communism, say, China pouring massive numbers of troops into Vietnam like they did in Korea a decade earlier.

Goldwater defeats Johnson. Then suppose the Supreme Court ruled that Goldwater did not qualify to be the president because he was born in Arizona before it became a state.

Who would be the president? William Miller, Goldwater's running mate? The Speaker of the House? Lyndon Johnson? Nelson Rockefeller who Goldwater defeated late in the Republican primary process? VP Miller serving in the interim until a special election can be held? The House of Representatives selecting the replacement president (and the Senate the VP?)

And what would happen to all of the bills Goldwater had signed? Any treaties he negotiated? Appointments he made? All null and void? Would Congress have to repass legislation or does the new president just have to sign the originals to make them valid (and what if he chose not to sign some of them?) We were not constitutional experts by a long shot, but someone today who is can probably write an interesting book about just such a circumstance.


Bill
It's all moot. If he was born in Arizona before it became a state but while it was a US territory, he was a (native-born) US citizen anyway. Similarly, Puerto Ricans are all US citizens even though PR isn't (yet) a state.

Doug

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Old 02-17-2011, 12:16 AM
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Here's an even bigger 'what if' to contemplate:

Say JFK's father didn't do such a good job in buying up votes (and the Chicago political machinery weren't so good at doing the same), and further that Nixon scratches up a few more votes here and there, and the former 60 Minutes Executive Producer (forget his name now; somewhat recently deceased....past few years) didn't INTENTIONALLY cut (i.e., he was the on-air director for those live debates) the Kennedy/Nixon debates in an attempt to make Nixon look bad (which admittedly didn't take a great deal of effort to accomplish.....he just plain looked uneasy in those debates and Kennedy looked like he just stepped off the cover of GQ).............SUCH THAT Nixon actually wins in 1960.

What kinda change in American history might we have seen from THAT??!! No Watergate.....or an 'earlier' Watergate? Would Nixon have set his sights on the moon in response to Bay of Pigs fiasco/Gagarin in space?? Or would there have even been a Bay of Pigs invasion? (potentially so, since I think that invasion was actually in the planning stages under Eisenhower).

What would have been Nixon's take on Vietnam???

Wow, two biggies for the 1960s: Vietnam/no Vietnam; Apollo/no Apollo.

Of course, there would not have been a very dreadful afternoon in Dallas one sunny Friday in late November, either.

Food for thought.

Earl
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