Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Scale & Sport Scale Rocketry
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-15-2020, 10:58 PM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,507
Default Polaris-based Sea Scout SLV

Hello All,

Today I was reading through Willy Ley's June 1969 book "Rockets, Missiles, And Men In Space." (This is a much-updated version of his original May 1944 book titled "Rockets"; after a second printing in September of that year [which had added notes about the then-new V-2], in 1947 he published an expanded version called "Rockets and Space Travel." Over the next three years German and American missiles became known, which necessitated another re-write, called "Rockets, Missiles, and Space Travel." The dawning of the Space Age led to yet another re-writing--which nearly doubled the book's length--and to another title, "Rockets, Missiles, And Men In Space.") Now:

The book covers the historic, then-current, and then-planned launch vehicles, including the LTV Scout and the Ford Aeronutronics Blue Scout I, II, and Junior. On page 411 of the paperback edition his book (I have it and the hardcover one), Willy Ley wrote that:

"Though the Polaris is plainly and simply a military missile, it has had an influence on space activities. An early version of the Polaris became the first stage of the Scout rocket [NOTE: The X-17 is also called a "Polaris test vehicle" in Erik Bergaust's 1959 book "Rockets of the Navy"; Ley's book also calls the X-17 first stage that. - Blackshire], a four-stage, all-solid fuel, satellite-launch vehicle. The first stage, after modification, was given the name Algol, the second stage of the Scout is a Castor rocket, the third stage an Antares, and the fourth stage an Altair. (See Appendix 3 for a tabulation of these rockets, which are shown collectively as 'off-the-shelf hardware.') The Air Force's version of the Scout is very similar to the NASA version and is called the Blue Scout. The Navy's version, the Sea Scout, consists of a two-stage Polaris rocket without the warhead, with an Antares as the third stage and an Altair as the fourth. All three versions can place a 200-pound payload into an orbit 300 miles above sea level." ALSO:

If the Sea Scout ever flew, it may have used retired Polaris A1 and/or A2 first and second stages, topped by the Antares and Altair motors. However, the Sea Scout--which I had never heard of before--may have remained a "paper rocket" (although the much more recent, Polaris A3-based STARS [Strategic Target System, see: http://www.designation-systems.net/...app4/stars.html , https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_lau/stars.htm , and https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...Q4dUDCAk&uact=5 ]) has orbital launch capability (with one or two different upper stages).
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-22-2020, 12:05 AM
PeterAlway PeterAlway is offline
Intermediate Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 89
Default

While absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, I can say that in all my digging, I've never stumbled into anything about the Sea Scout.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-22-2020, 08:55 AM
ghrocketman's Avatar
ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
President, MAYHEM AGITATORS, Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Nunya Bizznuss, Michigan
Posts: 13,443
Default

If Peter has seen/knows nothing about it, and with his scale background, I really doubt it flew or existed very long.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-22-2020, 08:30 PM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,507
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlway
While absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, I can say that in all my digging, I've never stumbled into anything about the Sea Scout.
I agree, with both of you--I think it was designed (^those^ drawings would be eligible for documenting Concept Scale [also called Future/Fiction Scale--covering cancelled, proposed-but-never-built, existing-but-not-yet-flown, and science fiction vehicles] models of the Sea Scout), but ultimately simply wasn't built, for one or more reasons. Also:

The Navy could simply have decided to use the civilian (NASA) LTV Scout; they did in fact launch a number of their satellites, including--later on, in pairs at a time aboard one LTV Scout vehicle--SOOS (Stacked Oscars On Scout [no connection with the OSCAR ham radio satellites]) variants of their Transit navigational satellites, from the early/mid- 1960s up until near the end of the LTV Scout's career in 1994. One of the 21" diameter Vanguard-derived ferret (SIGINT--Signals Intelligence) spy satellites that's on museum display was intended to fly aboard an LTV Scout.
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-29-2020, 12:57 AM
olDave olDave is offline
Craftsman
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 174
Default

It might easily have been a company proposal that simply never got any further. Happens all the time in the aerospace business when attempting to sell to the gov't.
__________________
NAR 20602
used to be "powderburner" in another life
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-29-2020, 02:43 AM
georgegassaway's Avatar
georgegassaway georgegassaway is offline
Contest, Sport, it's all good......
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West of Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olDave
It might easily have been a company proposal that simply never got any further. Happens all the time in the aerospace business when attempting to sell to the gov't.

Possibly. Convair had a few proposals for other things that the Little Joe-II booster could be used for. The most ambitious was to use it as a booster for a modified Minuteman missile, to put payloads into orbit.


Article image: http://georgesrockets.com/GRP/Scale...roposal1965.jpg
__________________
Contest flying, Sport flying, it's all good.....
NAR# 18723 NAR.org
GeorgesRockets.com
Georges'CancerGoFundMe:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-geo...ay-fight-cancer
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-29-2020, 02:25 PM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 11,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgegassaway
The most ambitious was to use it as a booster for a modified Minuteman missile, to put payloads into orbit.


I've got a good name for it. Convair SPEV.



.
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-29-2020, 11:28 PM
blackshire's Avatar
blackshire blackshire is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 6,507
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I've got a good name for it. Convair SPEV.



.
Or Recruiter (from Centuri), although Estes' SPEV definitely has a closer resemblance. :-) There was even a proposal to continue the Pegasus program beyond the three Saturn I-launched ones; the follow-on ones were to be sent out to interplanetary orbits, including the asteroid belt (to support Mars expeditions, just as Pegasus 1 - 3 collected near-Earth meteoroid size/abundance data for planning Apollo and Apollo Applications missions [some of which were planned to be of long duration, such as Skylab]).
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:22 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024