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  #1  
Old 09-25-2006, 01:44 PM
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EchoVictor EchoVictor is offline
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Default Estes #2010 Star Rider - clone conundrum

I picked up a pack of BT-50 sized Estes plastic cones the other day, and inside was one of the cockpit canopy/canard nose cones, PN 071005, that's used on a couple of kits. I already have a #2175 Nemesis (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=390), so of course, that means I've got to build the other one, the #2010 Star Rider.

I pulled the plans from JimZ, and started to collect parts. Unfortunately, the instructions don't give you the length of the body tube. So, over to the new YORS page with the handy body tube reference, which shows a BT-50L at 12.7" length.

However, just to be sure, I wanted to double-check the length against the catalog. The Star Rider was released from 1989-1992, and for all four years it shows an overall length of 16.062". Measuring my PN 071005 nose cone at 4.375", that gives me a body tube length of 11.687", basically one inch short of the BT-50L in the reference guide.

So, which is correct?

I tried scaling off of one of the catalog shots, but that got me a body length of 10.7". I don't give credence to this one, as the catalog shot isn't a pure side view. I also scaled the little launch prep drawing from the instructions, and that also gave me a length of 11.7". I'm leaning towards using that length, but does any one have a Star Rider handy that they could measure?

Thanks,
EV
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  #2  
Old 09-25-2006, 03:04 PM
Ltvscout Ltvscout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoVictor
I picked up a pack of BT-50 sized Estes plastic cones the other day, and inside was one of the cockpit canopy/canard nose cones, PN 071005, that's used on a couple of kits. I already have a #2175 Nemesis (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=390), so of course, that means I've got to build the other one, the #2010 Star Rider.

I pulled the plans from JimZ, and started to collect parts. Unfortunately, the instructions don't give you the length of the body tube. So, over to the new YORS page with the handy body tube reference, which shows a BT-50L at 12.7" length.

However, just to be sure, I wanted to double-check the length against the catalog. The Star Rider was released from 1989-1992, and for all four years it shows an overall length of 16.062". Measuring my PN 071005 nose cone at 4.375", that gives me a body tube length of 11.687", basically one inch short of the BT-50L in the reference guide.

So, which is correct?

I tried scaling off of one of the catalog shots, but that got me a body length of 10.7". I don't give credence to this one, as the catalog shot isn't a pure side view. I also scaled the little launch prep drawing from the instructions, and that also gave me a length of 11.7". I'm leaning towards using that length, but does any one have a Star Rider handy that they could measure?

Interesting. I wonder if the Estes '74 Parts Catalog is wrong, again. That's where the #'s came from if I'm not mistaken. They had the wrong info in there for the BT-52 tube as well. Just ask John Brohm.
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  #3  
Old 09-25-2006, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoVictor
over to the new YORS page with the handy body tube reference, which shows a BT-50L at 12.7" length.

Measuring my PN 071005 nose cone at 4.375", that gives me a body tube length of 11.687", basically one inch short of the BT-50L in the reference guide.

So, which is correct?

I tried scaling off of one of the catalog shots, but that got me a body length of 10.7". I don't give credence to this one, as the catalog shot isn't a pure side view. I also scaled the little launch prep drawing from the instructions, and that also gave me a length of 11.7". I'm leaning towards using that length, but does any one have a Star Rider handy that they could measure?
Eric,

Here's what my TV reporter brain dug up for you. Over at JimZ, there's a note that says:

http://www.dars.org/jimz/estes/est2010.txt

"The ring fins on the Star Rider are BT-80 24mm long, and the body tube is
350 mm long."

Although I remember reading *somewhere* that the ring fins were actually 15/16" (~0.94") long.


The Kevin Johnson "Star Rider" review on EMRR used the stock Nemesis 12.7" (?) BT-50.


Cheers,
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Last edited by CenturiGuy : 09-25-2006 at 09:09 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-25-2006, 06:08 PM
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I have an unopened kit and I measured the tube at it is indeed 12.7" long.
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  #5  
Old 09-25-2006, 06:54 PM
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CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
Interesting. I wonder if the Estes '74 Parts Catalog is wrong, again. That's where the #'s came from if I'm not mistaken. They had the wrong info in there for the BT-52 tube as well. Just ask John Brohm.


It's the kit catalog that's wrong, probably. Wouldn't be the first time...

I have (the mortal remains of) an original Star Rider in front of me. It's nominally 12.7" long, so it is a BT-50L. There might have been slight variations in the length, depending on the mood of the person cutting the tube that day...
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  #6  
Old 09-25-2006, 07:24 PM
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Well, that's two original kit data points at 12.7", so that's what it'll be. Off to the cutting board!

Later,
EV
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2006, 09:08 PM
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John Brohm John Brohm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
Interesting. I wonder if the Estes '74 Parts Catalog is wrong, again. That's where the #'s came from if I'm not mistaken. They had the wrong info in there for the BT-52 tube as well. Just ask John Brohm.


Hi Scott;

Nope, the BT-50L entry in the 1974 Parts Catalog is indeed correct, and as Gordon has already reported, the airframe tubes I measured in the approximately half-dozen Star Rider kits I examined for the Tube Reference all fell within the variance I discussed in the Appendix of the Tube Reference document. As Craig mentions, the BT-50L is notorious for being cut at slightly different lengths. 12.7" (12-11/16") is as good a nominal measurement as any.

Concerning the fin tubes, I should point out here that the notes on JimZ's site relative to the fin tubes are in error (so is the note relative to the airframe tube, btw); the fin tubes are not BT-80, but in fact the older JT-80C coupler, 1" in length. This is the coupler found, for example, in the original Super Big Bertha (#2018). One could use 1" sections of BT-80 for a clone and no one would be the wiser, although the internal balsa fins would have to be cut slightly over large for the proper fit.

And if Phred is reading this, I'll pass on that the font used for the Star Rider decal is a slightly modified version of the "Pump" font (this, in turn, is a derivative of the older Bauhaus 93 font). Maybe Phred can help us out here with a decal set for the Star Rider someday.

Lastly, concerning your remark regarding the BT-52, I feel that the story here is rather clear at this point. I hope that there may be some news for us cloners on this subject in the not too distant future.
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  #8  
Old 09-25-2006, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CenturiGuy

.... Some stuff snipped...

Now, the following equations *may* not be exactly correct. Could somebody *please* doublecheck my math? Thanks!

350mm / 2.54cm per inch / 12" in a foot = 11.48" inches

24mm / 2.54cm per inch / 12" in a foot = 0.7874" inches ~25/32"

...Other stuff snipped...



Jay;

350 mm (@ 25.4 mm/inch) = 13.78" (~> 13.75")

24 mm (@ 25.4 mm/inch) = 0.945" (~15/16")

Had a Thermo Prof that liked to mix unit systems in the same problem; got out of hand when we had to express motion in Furlongs/Fortnight. Hated that exam (don't ask).
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  #9  
Old 09-25-2006, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brohm
Furlongs/Fortnight. Hated that exam (don't ask).
*Yeesh.* I don't *need* to.

Thanks for the "save."


Cheers,
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  #10  
Old 09-25-2006, 10:33 PM
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EchoVictor EchoVictor is offline
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Well, I went with the 12.7" as mentioned. I figure if I really need to, I can chop it down.

Seeing it built up, this sure is a pretty bird.....


Later,
EV
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