Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Scale & Sport Scale Rocketry
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 09-21-2015, 01:14 PM
sandman's Avatar
sandman sandman is offline
Custom Cone, Kit & Decal Maker
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Way North of Detroit
Posts: 5,048
Default

Luke, George and Jerry, I just finished a series of emails with an old member here and friend, Tim Wilson, who I did some custom work for on the MLAS mock up 1/20th scale model.

He is now the Director of NESC (NASA engineering & Safety Center) at NASA Langly. He was nice enough to send me the "2014 Technical Update". In it, it explains the shroud and how it's design was based on the information gleaned from the MLAS.

The MLAS information was an important part of the design of the Orion shroud.

The Sears Hack shape of the shroud it identical to the MLAS shroud!

Acoustical issues with aerodynamic pressure at high Mach speeds plus the LES exhaust problems of the escape system would injure the astronauts.

The Orion Pad Abort 1 did not have the shroud and information from PA-1 confirms the risk to the astronauts.

You will see the shroud on PA-2 and on the ATB test (Little Joe III in 2017).

I know you guys really really want to start a political rant on the subject but.

Let's not, please.

Everyone knows the Orion and SLS are feebly funded and the future direction of NASA is unclear but it looks like we will have a manned capsule ready in the future.
__________________
"I'm a sandman. I've never killed anyone. I terminate runners when their time is up." Logan from "Logan's Run"

http://sandmandecals.com/
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-21-2015, 02:22 PM
luke strawwalker's Avatar
luke strawwalker luke strawwalker is offline
BAR
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Needville and Shiner, TX
Posts: 6,134
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman
Luke, George and Jerry, I just finished a series of emails with an old member here and friend, Tim Wilson, who I did some custom work for on the MLAS mock up 1/20th scale model.

He is now the Director of NESC (NASA engineering & Safety Center) at NASA Langly. He was nice enough to send me the "2014 Technical Update". In it, it explains the shroud and how it's design was based on the information gleaned from the MLAS.

The MLAS information was an important part of the design of the Orion shroud.

The Sears Hack shape of the shroud it identical to the MLAS shroud!

Acoustical issues with aerodynamic pressure at high Mach speeds plus the LES exhaust problems of the escape system would injure the astronauts.

The Orion Pad Abort 1 did not have the shroud and information from PA-1 confirms the risk to the astronauts.

You will see the shroud on PA-2 and on the ATB test (Little Joe III in 2017).

I know you guys really really want to start a political rant on the subject but.

Let's not, please.

Everyone knows the Orion and SLS are feebly funded and the future direction of NASA is unclear but it looks like we will have a manned capsule ready in the future.


How about posting the information here for everyone to enjoy?? I summarize a lot of NASA material in the scale section, that would be a good place for it.

If you don't have the time or inclination, and if the information is online or on an electronic format, I'd be happy to summarize it and put it on the scale section if you'd care to send a copy to me.

I agree that the neat thing is that we now have another prototype to model-- political, funding, and other ramifications aside.... those are interesting discussions, but outside the purview of pure modeling of the prototype...

Later! OL JR
__________________
The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-21-2015, 04:03 PM
sandman's Avatar
sandman sandman is offline
Custom Cone, Kit & Decal Maker
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Way North of Detroit
Posts: 5,048
Default

Let me wade through it and see what I can post.

It's a magazine format so I'll have to scan as much as I can.
__________________
"I'm a sandman. I've never killed anyone. I terminate runners when their time is up." Logan from "Logan's Run"

http://sandmandecals.com/
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-21-2015, 04:13 PM
rocketguy101's Avatar
rocketguy101 rocketguy101 is offline
frustrated aero
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Duncan, OK
Posts: 834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman
Let me wade through it and see what I can post.

It's a magazine format so I'll have to scan as much as I can.


is this it? Pg 22
NESC Technical Updates 2014 pdf
__________________
David Stribling
NAR 18402 SR
But it is rocket science!
Get yer Barrowmans here

Last edited by rocketguy101 : 09-21-2015 at 04:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-21-2015, 06:19 PM
sandman's Avatar
sandman sandman is offline
Custom Cone, Kit & Decal Maker
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Way North of Detroit
Posts: 5,048
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketguy101


Yep! That's it!

Sorry I haven't been keeping up today.

I've been doing yard work.
__________________
"I'm a sandman. I've never killed anyone. I terminate runners when their time is up." Logan from "Logan's Run"

http://sandmandecals.com/
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-21-2015, 07:46 PM
Jerry Irvine's Avatar
Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
Freeform rocketry advocate.
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Claremont, CA "The intellectual capitol of the world."-WSJ
Posts: 3,780
Default

My political rant was pithy. I am ready for the scale data too. I am a rocketeer after all.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-22-2015, 11:50 PM
georgegassaway's Avatar
georgegassaway georgegassaway is offline
Contest, Sport, it's all good......
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West of Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman
I know you guys really really want to start a political rant on the subject but.

Let's not, please.

Everyone knows the Orion and SLS are feebly funded and the future direction of NASA is unclear but it looks like we will have a manned capsule ready in the future.

Please do not include my name as someone wanting to go on a POLITICAL rant.

I never understood the point of the MLAS flying without actually testing the MLAS abort system which by that time was a dead issue. But, whatever.

in any case, I'm glad you found the info you were looking for. And that whole PDF file is pretty interesting.

Meanwhile, 9 more days till I see "the Martian"....

- George Gassaway
__________________
Contest flying, Sport flying, it's all good.....
NAR# 18723 NAR.org
GeorgesRockets.com
Georges'CancerGoFundMe:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-geo...ay-fight-cancer
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-22-2015, 07:42 PM
rocketguy101's Avatar
rocketguy101 rocketguy101 is offline
frustrated aero
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Duncan, OK
Posts: 834
Default

Well looks like they are nailing down the design (and they are finally showing the orange insulation on the the booster!)...
http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...e-launch-system

wonder if the "swoosh" paint pattern on the SRBs will make it through to the flight vehicle
__________________
David Stribling
NAR 18402 SR
But it is rocket science!
Get yer Barrowmans here
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-22-2015, 08:27 PM
sandman's Avatar
sandman sandman is offline
Custom Cone, Kit & Decal Maker
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Way North of Detroit
Posts: 5,048
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by georgegassaway
Please do not include my name as someone wanting to go on a POLITICAL rant.

I never understood the point of the MLAS flying without actually testing the MLAS abort system which by that time was a dead issue. But, whatever.

in any case, I'm glad you found the info you were looking for. And that whole PDF file is pretty interesting.

Meanwhile, 9 more days till I see "the Martian"....

- George Gassaway


On The contrary, George, there was a great deal they learned from the MLAS.

Tim Wilson at NASA Langley (he is a member here!) and his safety team learned that the abort system for the Orion being much larger than the Apollo system is actually acoustically deadly to the astronauts.

The escape motors are just to darn loud!

It's actually a bit more complicated than that but that's basically it. Since they already had the correct aerodynamic shape (it's a Sears Hack), NASA had a basis for the shroud thanks to the work on the MLAS.

This led to the MLAS shroud being adapted to the Orion capsule.

An additional benefit it the improved aerodynamics of the SLS to the point of additional payload to orbit capacity.

Sometimes even a dumb idea scratched on a napkin by the boss can actually lead to good things.
__________________
"I'm a sandman. I've never killed anyone. I terminate runners when their time is up." Logan from "Logan's Run"

http://sandmandecals.com/
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-22-2015, 09:54 PM
scott_mills scott_mills is offline
Craftsman
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 253
Default

aww crap i gotta repaint my 1/100 model now
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:46 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024