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  #21  
Old 04-11-2020, 08:50 PM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwtoelle
Just a couple of dozen people wanting some of these old motors?

Younger non-forum reading folks have never seen nor heard of the B8 or C5, so it would be us old timers that want them.

As a wild guess, I'd think the B6-4 would be the biggest seller over the last 30 or 40 years. It's a good little motor that lets you get models back on smaller fields. The C6-5 probably gets a lot of purchases from people with larger flying fields and from new folks that don't realize the bigger motor will automatically program their rocket's guidance system to find a rocket eating tree.

The B8 and C5 will help tremendously with the heavier RTF and ARF models that have become prevalent in the Estes lineup. If they prove reliable this time around, they may be available for a long time.
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  #22  
Old 04-11-2020, 11:40 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwtoelle
... Personally, I really wonder what Estes' production numbers for the various motor types are...


During the Estes tour at NARAM-60, the tour group was taken out to the fence by the motor production machine buildings.

Ellis Langford and Bill Stine 'sort-of' played a game of saying many things but not directly answering any questions.

Until they went too far.

One of them let slip how many A8-3 motors could be produced in a day.
Someone in the group did the quick mental math and called out, "... One-million (something, something)."

The look on Bill's face told everyone "...Oh $h!t"

So, roughly one million A8-3 motors a year are produced.
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  #23  
Old 04-11-2020, 11:43 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
As a wild guess, I'd think the B6-4 would be the biggest seller over the last 30 or 40 years. It's a good little motor that lets you get models back on smaller fields. The C6-5 probably gets a lot of purchases from people with larger flying fields and from new folks that don't realize the bigger motor will automatically program their rocket's guidance system to find a rocket eating tree.



The C6-5 is the highest volume selling hobby rocket motor.

Distributor orders point to that.

My personal experience working in two hobby shops was the C6-5s sold more than any other rocket motor.
Most first-time rocket buyers wanted the biggest motor that could be used.
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  #24  
Old 04-12-2020, 12:34 AM
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With regular access to a field that can support flights to ~1000 feet, I go through a lot of C6-5s. But also B6-4s, and since they became available, Q-Jet C12s, both -4 and especially -6s.

This is not to say that I won't be getting C5s, especially boosters when they come, and B8s if they also come, both in boosters and -5s. The B8-5 gives a light model a ride like the C12-6 Q-Jet does - zoom!
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  #25  
Old 04-12-2020, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
During the Estes tour at NARAM-60, the tour group was taken out to the fence by the motor production machine buildings.

Ellis Langford and Bill Stine 'sort-of' played a game of saying many things but not directly answering any questions.

Until they went too far.

One of them let slip how many A8-3 motors could be produced in a day.
Someone in the group did the quick mental math and called out, "... One-million (something, something)."

The look on Bill's face told everyone "...Oh $h!t"

So, roughly one million A8-3 motors a year are produced.


Bob, I remember that, too. I seem to recall that Mark Johnson was the math whiz ...
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  #26  
Old 04-12-2020, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
During the Estes tour at NARAM-60, the tour group was taken out to the fence by the motor production machine buildings.

Ellis Langford and Bill Stine 'sort-of' played a game of saying many things but not directly answering any questions.

Until they went too far.

One of them let slip how many A8-3 motors could be produced in a day.
Someone in the group did the quick mental math and called out, "... One-million (something, something)."

The look on Bill's face told everyone "...Oh $h!t"

So, roughly one million A8-3 motors a year are produced.



Ahh...interesting. Sounds like Bill needs to work on his poker face just a bit more!

Yeah, I would think the A8-3 and the B6-4 are probably the top two selling motors for Estes, if I had to venture a guess. I know I flew a ton of them back in my early years of rocketry. Sooo many of the average Estes and Centuri kits back then used both those motors...along with the C6-5. But as others have mentioned, larger motors in the C class did present problems for many in regards to field size. I know for many of us here on the east coast, finding a field that could support C or higher class flights was a challenge. I could do C6-3 flights ok in larger rockets like my trusty ol' Centuri Orion, but C6-7's in something like a Centuri Micron or Javelin, forget it. Two stages flights B to A were about as high as I could fly, and even that was really pushing it for the field I had then, which, for east coast standards was not bad. But it was certainly pushing things. An expansive county jail complex now sits in that farm field.

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  #27  
Old 04-12-2020, 03:00 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
Bob, I remember that, too. I seem to recall that Mark Johnson was the math whiz ...


Yes, Mark was the one who called out the number.

There was a pause and no-one said anything.

Mark's wife, Bonnie, then stated it was just a matter of simple math.
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  #28  
Old 04-12-2020, 08:46 PM
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I will agree with Initiator 001, the C6-5 is the best selling 18mm motor now, followed closely by the B6-4. I have been a buyer at a distributor, and two large online retailers, and still have my order paperwork to confirm those sales. Besides customers wanting the biggest motor that fits, other reasons include the fact that rockets have gotten heavier over time, and motors have gotten less potent. Also, until very recently, the starter sets of the past two decades didn't include motors, and the experience of the low and slow A8-3 didn't happen, as customers grabbed for more power.
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  #29  
Old 04-12-2020, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofireball
.... and motors have gotten less potent.

How can they be "less potent" and still meet their certified performance? Or are you suggesting that what's shown on the motor cert data pages on the NAR site are data that are no longer valid?

I do understand that current BP formulae don't perform as well as they used to, which is why we can't have A3-6Ts (for example) any more - as there's no longer enough room in the case for enough BP to provide the 2.22 N-s of an A3 and have enough room for a 6-second delay.

All that said, I have occasionally seen some poor performance from recently-made motors, most notably a batch of A10-0Ts made just last year.

I'll let Fred Schecter address "starter sets" with no motors. I will say that when I became a BAR, I bought a starter set (with motors) at the local Walmart. This would have been in 2009, IIRC.
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  #30  
Old 04-13-2020, 05:07 AM
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In my opinion we need NAR to publish or provide the re-testing data. They claim they don’t have to because the numbers are still similar to the published data (mid nineties for most Estes motors).
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