Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Projects
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-14-2021, 04:43 PM
bobdros bobdros is offline
Craftsman
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 105
Default Estes Saturn V fin question

Many years ago I bought a Saturn 4 #2001 on eBay. I still haven't gotten around to building it. The fins are so small I wonder how effective they are. I'm not a skilled modeler and wonder what others do to make it fly effectively.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-14-2021, 09:02 PM
tdracer's Avatar
tdracer tdracer is offline
Scale Modeler Extrodinare
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdros
Many years ago I bought a Saturn 4 #2001 on eBay. I still haven't gotten around to building it. The fins are so small I wonder how effective they are. I'm not a skilled modeler and wonder what others do to make it fly effectively.


IIRC, the 2001 Saturn V kit has oversized fins compared to scale - if you build it stock it should be stable. The original K-36 S-V kit had 'scale' fins, with clear plastic fins that you slipped over the scale fins for flight, but nothing like that was needed for the 2001 kit.

That being said, I never actually tried to fly a 2001 Estes Saturn V, but the fins are pretty much the same size as the later Estes Saturn V kits.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-14-2021, 09:45 PM
jeffyjeep's Avatar
jeffyjeep jeffyjeep is offline
Old Submariner
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Home of Wayne & Garth
Posts: 7,760
Default

I have indeed flown the #2001 SV with the included balsa fins. I've never had a stability problem with the model.
__________________
Never trust an atom. They make up everything.

4 out of 3 people struggle with math.

Chemically, alcohol IS a solution.

NAR# 94042
SAM# 0078
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-15-2021, 12:35 AM
ghrocketman's Avatar
ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
President, MAYHEM AGITATORS, Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Nunya Bizznuss, Michigan
Posts: 13,443
Default

The #2001 Saturn V has WAY oversized fins compared to scale.
I cut mine down to scale size, added 4oz nose weight, and it flies stable with Aerotech F24-4 RMS 24 motors.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-15-2021, 07:20 AM
bobdros bobdros is offline
Craftsman
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 105
Default

Thanks! I had read that the original recomended motors were under powered. What's involved with changing to the Aerotech motors. Do I have to change the motor mount? And what's involved with doing that?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-15-2021, 08:48 AM
ghrocketman's Avatar
ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
President, MAYHEM AGITATORS, Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Nunya Bizznuss, Michigan
Posts: 13,443
Default

You don't have to do anything to use up to Aerotech F24-4 RMS 24 reloads.
Those fit into the RMS24 reload casing. The single-use F32 also fits into the factory-stock 24mm Engine Mount as well.
Just use good glue joints.
Many upgrade the mount to 29mm though. That way all 29mm engines fit including the Aerotech RMS 29-40/120 hobbyline (non high-power) casing. One could use from the 29mm Estes E16-4 through all the various 29mm Aerotech offerings through some of the high-power H engines.

A single D12-3 in the Saturn V is a TURD of a flight to maybe 100'.
Not even worth putting it on the pad.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-15-2021, 10:28 AM
bobdros bobdros is offline
Craftsman
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 105
Default

Do I need to do any special reinforcemennt for an Aerotech motor?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-15-2021, 11:21 AM
tdracer's Avatar
tdracer tdracer is offline
Scale Modeler Extrodinare
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdros
Do I need to do any special reinforcemennt for an Aerotech motor?


Not if it's properly built - the stock Estes 2001 is perfectly capable of handling an AeroTech "E" or baby "F". Just make sure the engine mount is well built with proper glue fillets. You may want to provision it for a 3.75" motor (just move the engine block and use a longer engine hook).
As noted earlier, I never flew my 2001 Saturn (it's been a display model), but I built several 2157 Saturns and flew them with AeroTech E's and F's. The 2001 is actually a little more robust than the early 2157 kits (vacuformed fins and fin-fairings).
Now, if you want to build it for 29mm motors, you'll need to do some beefing up (and add a fair amount of nose ballast).
As I recall, you want it to balance - flight ready - no further aft than the rear edge of the second stage ullage motors.
BTW, with the 2001 kit, leave off half the 2nd stage ullage motors - it shows eight, but all the manned Saturn V flights only had 4 (and the last few didn't have any).
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-15-2021, 12:06 PM
jeffyjeep's Avatar
jeffyjeep jeffyjeep is offline
Old Submariner
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Home of Wayne & Garth
Posts: 7,760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
You don't have to do anything to use up to Aerotech F24-4 RMS 24 reloads.
Those fit into the RMS24 reload casing. The single-use F32 also fits into the factory-stock 24mm Engine Mount as well.
Just use good glue joints.
Many upgrade the mount to 29mm though. That way all 29mm engines fit including the Aerotech RMS 29-40/120 hobbyline (non high-power) casing. One could use from the 29mm Estes E16-4 through all the various 29mm Aerotech offerings through some of the high-power H engines.

A single D12-3 in the Saturn V is a TURD of a flight to maybe 100'.
Not even worth putting it on the pad.


Yes, I don’t think I ever had a flight more than 100 feet with a D12-3. Parachute deployment always had to be perfect and quick! “Gravity is a harsh mistress.”
__________________
Never trust an atom. They make up everything.

4 out of 3 people struggle with math.

Chemically, alcohol IS a solution.

NAR# 94042
SAM# 0078
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-15-2021, 12:30 PM
ghrocketman's Avatar
ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
President, MAYHEM AGITATORS, Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Nunya Bizznuss, Michigan
Posts: 13,443
Default

At least an "E" engine is a good safe "minimum" for the Saturn V.
While a "small" Estes E12-4 will work, the Aerotech 40nsec "full E" E30-4 is much better. It fits wherever the D12 does.

Flying on a D12 is nothing but inviting disaster.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024