Were these NASA pics or are you referring to the dimensioned line drawing?

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	Nike-Nike-Cajun.pdf (201.6 KB, 36 views)

I had just seen the pics on Gunters - so these are great. Thanks!

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Charles McGonegal
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AEppelTreow Winery & Distillery
Ad Astra Tabernamque!

Not exactly the same...

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*Nods* It may have been like the Sud Aviation Pegasé ("Pegasus," named after the constellation [like the Belier --> "Aries," Centaure --> "Centaurus," Dauphin --> "Delphinus," Dragon --> "Draco," and Eridan --> "Eridanus"], see: https://books.google.com/books?id=P0_2BwAAQBAJ&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=Pegase%27+sounding+rocket&source=bl&ots=schEHBJLzb&sig=ACfU3U3e_TGySA7JAwGLnIwRcDjpd7TjtQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj9lu7R3tj3AhX7HDQIHfTfAGkQ6AF6BAgOEAM#v =onepage&q=Pegase'%20sounding%20rocket&f=false *and* http://www.sat-net.com/serra/sudav_e.htm ). The three-stage Pegasé sounding rocket, consisting of two tandem Stromboli rocket motors (used as the Dragon first stage [topped by a Belier], and as both stages of the Eridan) topped by a Belier, was one of those "logical next steps" that, for whatever reason (budgets, and/or lack of interest in its payload vs. altitude range, I'd guess), was not proceeded with.

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NAR #54895 SR

Attached is a drawing representing Pegasus.

None of Sud Aviation’s three-stage sounding rocket projects were successful, neither Centaure Gerboise, nor Dragon Flèche, nor Eridan Javelot.

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Thank you for posting that Pegasè drawing--it is far better (having the included dimensions) than the only other drawing of it I've seen, in a "comparison line-up" drawing of all of Sud Aviation's sounding rockets (in a 35 mm transparency that a former Fort Churchill [Canada] Rocket Range scientist loaned to me in the 1990s).

Even if a Pegasè rocket was never test-flown even once (did I use the correct accent mark over the "e" in Pegasè? [I'm teaching myself to read French better]), it *is* eligible for entry in Scale (and in Sport Scale, too, I think [where the models are judged from a distance of 1 metre, but are not measured, being compared to photographs or dimensioned drawings of the full-scale rockets instead]) model rocket contests in the "Concept Scale"--also called "Future/Fiction Scale"--category. (Concept Scale covers proposed-but-never-flown, cancelled, and science fiction rockets, missiles, and spaceships. Dr. Wernher von Braun's 1950s three-stage crew and cargo orbital rockets--which he calculated and produced dimensioned drawings of--and which Chesley Bonestell painted for the 1952 - 1954 "Collier's" magazine series, and several books--are Concept Scale designs.) The Nike-Nike-Apache is also eligible for Concept Scale, if it never actually flew. Also:

Were any of those three-stage Sud Aviation rockets actually flight tested? From their names, it sounds like--but you would know far better than I--the third stages of the Centaure Gerboise (a Venus motor [the standard Centaure's booster] with a vacuum-optimized nozzle, perhaps?), the Dragon Flèche, and maybe also the Eridan Javelot, may have been considerably smaller third stages than the Belier (as planned for being the Pegasè's third stage). If so, kinetic heating (aerodynamic heating) during ascent may have been a problem, as well as large impact dispersion (such that only very large ranges, such as Norway's Andøya Rocket Range [now the Andøya Space Centre: https://www.andoyaspace.no/ ], could safely launch them), and:

The three-stage Sud Aviation designs, like the Nike-Nike-Apache, might also have had quite small payload capabilities to their high altitudes (even solid-state electronics weren't as highly miniaturize-able then, at least not inexpensively), and that might have frustrated the scientists who were the customers. As well:

Lockheed marketed their X-17 (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_X-17 ) re-entry test missile--one of which had accidentally climbed over 1,600 km (1,000 miles) high when all three of its stages fired on the way up--as the "Explorer" sounding rocket, as Peter Alway noted. But because its payload to such altitudes was so small, just a few pounds, no institution ordered any of them, beyond the three X-17A vehicles used for the Project Argus (now called Operation Argus, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Argus [it has a video link, too!]) 1.7 kiloton atomic detonations in space, up to 794 km (493 miles) above the South Atlantic Ocean, and those low-yield W-25 fission bombs that the Argus X-17As carried into space were quite small, BUT:

Today, however, even tiny, < 1 kg payloads can carry an entire suite of instruments, as the CubeSat, picosat, and femtosat Earth satellites (and even deep space probes, such as the MarCO probes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Cube_One ) demonstrate--maybe Sud Aviation (now part of Aérospatiale) should try again, with upgraded (perhaps Kevlar/epoxy casing) rocket motors, offering upgraded versions of the Belier through Eridan. Also, as JAXA (of Japan) demonstrated with their modified SS-520 (Round #5) sounding rocket in 2018 (see: https://www.google.com/search?q=SS-...sclient=gws-wiz ), adding a small third stage motor to their two-stage SS-520 sounding rocket (its first stage has a steel case) successfully converted it into a small satellite carrier rocket. The Sud Aviation "family" sounding rockets (especially upgraded versions of them) could also--with the addition of one or perhaps two small upper stage rocket motors--orbit small satellites. A jettison-able (at third or fourth stage ignition) "service module" with cold-gas nitrogen thrusters, for pointing and spin control (JAXA and one of its predecessor organizations, ISAS, have successfully used these on "sounding-rockets-become-satellite-carrier-rockets," as early as 1970 [to orbit their very first satellite, in fact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_4S ]), would ensure accurate orbital injection.

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All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

I will try to answer these different points, but we are moving away from the original subject of this post and the webmaster may want to open a new post. I’ll leave it to you.

No, none of the Sud Aviation 3-stage sounding rocket projects have reached the flight test phase, or even the manufacturing phase.

Gerboise was not intended to reach high altitudes. The idea was to fire a third stage (upwards) during the descent so that the payload makes a "jump" and stays longer in the layer to be studied (80 to 120 km of altitude). This third stage had to have the diameter of the Venus but a grain in Isolane (AP-PU).

Dragon-Flèche and Eridan-Javelot were projects for high altitude sounding rockets. The 3° stage of Dragon-Flèche was an experimental stage (a 30 cm-diameter model for the development of the Diamant-A 3rd stage made of fiberglass) already static fired. The 3rd stage of Eridan-Javelot was a spherical casing stage developed to serve as a kick stage for the Symphonie satellite (which was finally equipped with a liquid motor).

I have no information on kinetic heating for these rockets, however, it is clear that dispersal of the point of impact was a big problem. For this reason, the ONERA 4-stage Berenice rocket was equipped with a system to pilot the first stage. The payload had to fall back into the Mediterranean Sea where there are always many boats. It was not possible to prohibit the movement of ships in a too large area .

I point out here that in 1963 ONERA had proposed a modified version of Berenice (new 4th stage) capable of orbiting a small satellite of 3.5 kg. This project was not selected.

To conclude, I doubt very much that a French, and even a European, company is launching today in the construction of sounding rockets. The series would be too low to be profitable.

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Thank you for this information (it is all new to me, and very interesting), and I agree regarding the "subject drift" in this thread (I won't contribute more to it). These proposed Sud Aviation and ONERA designs (in addition to their un-realized designs, ONERA also flew an interesting series of vehicles!) deserve their own discussion thread (or threads) on this Scale & Sport Scale sub-forum, as they would make interesting Scale and/or Sport Scale models. I doubt if any of these proposed designs have ever been modeled, let alone judged for--or flown in--a scale model rocket contest.

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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
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All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

As the OP, I don't get hung up about thread drift.

I also don't participate in competition rocketry - just not my thing. I'm just looking for ways to rearrange the parts of my fleet, and seeing what lines up with history.

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Charles McGonegal
Ciderwright
AEppelTreow Winery & Distillery
Ad Astra Tabernamque!

Thank you--I've never participated in a model rocket contest, either. I just noticed some apparent similarities--which Cardonet confirmed are actual similarities (none of the three-stage Sud Aviation or ONERA designs were actually built, either)--between those full-scale three-stage vehicles and, it seems, the Nike-Nike-Apache, which also appears to have never been built.

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR