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  #1  
Old 08-15-2022, 11:29 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Default Rockoons (flying scale models)

Hello All,

An interesting variant of flying scale model rocket is the rockoon, a stratospheric balloon-lofted rocket (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockoon ). Several rockoons were developed and flown in the 1950s, and new ones--including with partially- and wholly-reusable rockets (the plastic film balloons can be used only once, but they are inexpensive *and* recyclable)--are being developed by private launch providers, for both suborbital and orbital flights. For scale model rockoons, the rocket would be suspended below the balloon at an angle less than 30 degrees from the vertical (full-scale rockoons were and are fired nearly vertically as well, so that the rockets reached/reach the highest possible altitudes). Also:

The new companies are B2Space (see: https://b2-space.com/ ), Zero2Infinity (see: https://www.zero2infinity.space/ ), and SpaceRyde (see: https://www.spaceryde.com/ ). ARCASPACE, a Romanian company (see: https://www.arcaspace.com/ & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARCAspace ), also test-flew rockoons, and:

In the 1950s, several designs were built and flown--the Loki-powered Hawk and Hawk II rockoons, the Deacon rockoons (made in two nose cone and tail fin assembly variants), and the four-stage Project Farside rockoons. On his StratoCat stratospheric balloons website (see: http://stratocat.com.ar/bases/15e.htm & http://stratocat.com.ar/bases/20e.htm ), and in the "Search" section of his site, Luis Eduardo Pacheco has written--compiled--several articles about rockoons, including mission lists (he also lists rockoon firings in his annual balloon flight--and balloon launch site--lists). Links to more material on these vehicles are here (also, click on the "Images for..." links on the linked-to webpages below):

Hawk (Loki) rockoon: http://stratocat.com.ar/fichas-e/1957/PMR-19570813.htm and https://www.google.com/search?q=Haw...gsILhCABBDHARDR

Hawk II (Loki) rockoon: https://www.google.com/search?q=Haw...sclient=gws-wiz

Deacon rockoon: https://www.google.com/search?q=Dea...sclient=gws-wiz

Deacon-Loki rockoon: https://www.google.com/search?q=Dea...sclient=gws-wiz

Project Farside rockoon: https://www.google.com/search?q=Pro...sclient=gws-wiz ALSO (regarding the balloons):

Luis Eduardo Pacheco's "StratoCat" website (see: http://stratocat.com.ar/indexe.html ) covers rockoons and other Skyhook-type stratospheric balloons and missions (see: https://www.google.com/search?q=sky...sclient=gws-wiz ). I also found a few eclectic books about balloons--including the plastic film Skyhook-type ones--that show how to properly shape the gores to get the right scale "teardrop bubble" (at launch) and "giant onion" (at maximum altitude) envelope shape, including for "natural shape" balloons (which some of the biggest Skyhooks were and are); these books are:

"Aerospace Balloons: From Montgolfiere To Space" by Edwin J. Kirschner:
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Se...ce&an=Kirschner

"Ballooning: The Complete Guide to Riding the Winds" by Dick Wirth and Jerry Young:
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Se...0Winds&an=Wirth

"How to Make and Fly Model Hot-air Balloons" by Ray Morse:
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Se...lloons&an=Morse PLUS:

Natural shape balloons have flat, or mostly-flat, tops. They're often--if not always--used for lifting heavy payloads, and they only have envelope stresses in the vertical direction (or nearly only in that direction, to minimize stresses on the plastic film); the vertical gore seam seals, which double as load tapes, take up the load, and:

Model Skyhook balloons are easy to make out of the thin polyethylene plastic film dry-cleaning clothes bags, which are available by the box, including on Ebay (they're also called "Garment Bags" or "Garment Covers" [see: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...g+bags&_sacat=0 ^and^ https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...+bags&_osacat=0 ]; it's the same plastic that full-scale Skyhooks are made of, except that they're often of even thinner-gauge plastic! The gores can be joined using narrow cellophane or Scotch/3M tape (craft stores sell narrow-width rolls of it).

I hope this material will be helpful.
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Old 08-17-2022, 05:19 PM
PeterAlway PeterAlway is offline
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There are some nice photographs of early rockoons in the James Van Allen archives at the University of Iowa. It always takes me a while to find them on the site, so I'll let you use your own Google Fu. There are some minimally dimensioned drawings in "Sounding Rockets" by Homer E Newell. It turns out that the color descriptions in that book are misleading, so that the Rockoon colors in "Rockets of the World" are, qute frankly, wrong. The photos also include nice shots of the Deacon Rockoon tail can, which also can fix up my RotW drawings. I've actually got the corrected drawings done, and will print them in the next edition of Rockets of the World.
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Old 08-17-2022, 06:38 PM
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Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlway
There are some nice photographs of early rockoons in the James Van Allen archives at the University of Iowa. It always takes me a while to find them on the site, so I'll let you use your own Google Fu. There are some minimally dimensioned drawings in "Sounding Rockets" by Homer E Newell. It turns out that the color descriptions in that book are misleading, so that the Rockoon colors in "Rockets of the World" are, qute frankly, wrong. The photos also include nice shots of the Deacon Rockoon tail can, which also can fix up my RotW drawings. I've actually got the corrected drawings done, and will print them in the next edition of Rockets of the World.


James Van Allen files . . .

https://digital.lib.uiowa.edu/islan...ect/ui:vanallen

Dave F.

Last edited by Ez2cDave : 08-17-2022 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 08-17-2022, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlway
I've actually got the corrected drawings done, and will print them in the next edition of Rockets of the World.


Any word on when that is going to be published, Peter ?

Dave F.

Last edited by Ez2cDave : 08-17-2022 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 08-18-2022, 06:23 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlway
There are some nice photographs of early rockoons in the James Van Allen archives at the University of Iowa. It always takes me a while to find them on the site, so I'll let you use your own Google Fu. There are some minimally dimensioned drawings in "Sounding Rockets" by Homer E Newell. It turns out that the color descriptions in that book are misleading, so that the Rockoon colors in "Rockets of the World" are, qute frankly, wrong. The photos also include nice shots of the Deacon Rockoon tail can, which also can fix up my RotW drawings. I've actually got the corrected drawings done, and will print them in the next edition of Rockets of the World.
Is it the four-fin tail fins & attachment can assembly, or the three-fin one? (The three-finned Deacon rockoon--it had a cylindrical payload topped by a hemispherical nose--is shown well in "Rockets of the Navy" by Erik Bergaust [1959, see: https://www.biblio.com/book/rockets...ric/d/418173488 ] and in "Rockets Explore the Air Above Us" by Newman Bumstead [National Geographic, April 1957 issue; it covers Standard Aerobee shots from Fort Churchill and Holloman AFB, too: https://www.biblio.com/book/nationa...er/d/1015256127 ].) The book and the NatGeo issue are available from www.AbeBooks.com (I have found that AbeBooks' booksellers--who range from swap meet, yard sale, and flea market peruse-ers to estate item buyers to small family-run bookstores to the big sellers, all around the world--often have old works available for significantly less than other vendors), Amazon, and Ebay. ALSO:

Some POD (Print-On-Demand) publishers--including in India (they've gone into this in a *big* way, offering inexpensive but high-quality reprints of old books, *and* re-binding services for individuals' old books)--have made old books available to us old nags, and to today's young folks, who have often never seen the originals, even in school or public libraries. For example:

Just last week, I received an excellent, brand-new POD-published reprint of a 1942 U.S. Weather Bureau manual titled "Instructions For Making Pilot Balloon Observations" (Circular O, from their Aerological Division), which was printed by Pranava Books. I ordered it from AbeBooks (*here* is its listing on AbeBooks: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo..._-srp1-_-title1 ); its price, ^including^ the postage, was $19.95 (and it came quickly, via Airmail). But there's more to this, which is why I ordered Pranava Books' reprint:

Another POD publisher also offers reprints of this same book, of which new and used copies are available from U.S., UK, and Danish booksellers (you can see them *here* https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Se... 0Observations , along with Pranava Books' reprint), BUT:

Not only are all of the other copies significantly more expensive than Pranava's (the new ones range from $23.47 [with $30.11 postage from the UK to the U.S.!] to $30.86; a used copy, from Denmark [it's softcover, and may be an original from 1942], is $18.87, but its postage--to the U.S.--is $36.23!), but their hard covers are not leather. My Pranava Books reprint has a two-tone leather binding, with gold lettering and accents--all (including the postage) for just $19.95! As well:

Dr. Rupert Sheldrake, a British biologist I know (see: https://www.sheldrake.org/ [I was honored when he asked me to proofread ^this^ https://www.sheldrake.org/files/pdf...n_Conscious.pdf article of his]), worked in India for many years, and he occasionally visits there, and maintains contact with his scientific colleagues there (such as at the Hyderabad Agricultural Research Station). He told me that this high-quality yet inexpensive Indian publishing is not new (the internet has enabled them to easily offer their products and services worldwide, unlike in the "pre-interwire" days [an old man, who called in to Jim Bohannon's national radio show on Westwood One about ten years ago to express his preference for mailing letters, actually called it the "interwire" :-) ]), and:

When he was working on his Ph.D. in biology at Cambridge decades ago, which involved a work/study program in India, Rupert had an Indian publisher re-bind all of his old, often classic university biology books in excellent, hand-tooled leather bindings, whose price was very reasonable (and he was living on a "shoestring budget" there, at that time). The rupee/pound--and rupee/dollar--exchange rates are to us Occidentals' advantage, as I have also experienced several times! :-) With Red China falling out of favor as a manufacturer of inexpensive consumer goods, India could clean up as their replacement; they--perhaps Antrix Corporation Ltd, or a long-time Indian fireworks manufacturer--could make inexpensive but reliable black powder and/or composite (or double-base) propellant model rocket motors, plus:

*Some* Indian firm already makes 18 mm black powder motors (and simple, balsa-and-paper educational rocket kits and "crossed-wooden slats with a 1 m long x 3 mm diameter launch rod" launch pads [and perhaps also electric launch controllers, although they--like many German model rocketeers--may use fuse ignition]). An article I saw in an issue of Space India magazine, ISRO's house organ, from 1988 or 1989 (ISRO included them in a package they sent to me in 1989 in response to a letter I'd sent to them, requesting information on their orbital and sounding rockets) showed a group of pre-teen/early-teens school students building model rockets, and an older student showing them how the launch pad initially guided the models; I don't know what company made them, but indigenous Indian model rocketry not only exists, but is now growing, as the following links show:

Here (see: https://theprint.in/science/the-ben...can-buy/177736/ [and ^here^ https://rocketeers.in/ & https://www.rocketeers.in/ are URLs for the "Rocketeers" company website]) is an article about an Indian model rocket start-up company, "Rocketeers," that was created by two alumni of the Indian Institute of Space Technology (IIST), and they also worked in ISRO (where they received the expertise that enables them to make their own model rocket motors, see: https://rocketeers.in/about-us/ , and the product listings). Model rocket clubs and other model rocketry activities are also spreading throughout India (see: https://www.google.com/search?q=mod...nt=gws-wiz-serp ), and lastly:

They're on *this* https://rocketeers.in/learning/ page of the "Rocketeers" company website, but I'll also post their URLs separately, ^here^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6eVOuEg7AQ&t=3s and ^here^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufQ8sfFEb4k&t=5s - as you'll see, the "Rocketeers" company in India makes its own model rocket motors, model rocket kits (including with plastic nose cones; all of their parts are available separately as well as in kits and outfits), launch pads, and electric launch controllers (which are durably made, much like the early Centuri launch controllers).

I hope this information will be useful.
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Last edited by blackshire : 08-18-2022 at 08:01 AM.
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  #6  
Old 08-18-2022, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ez2cDave
James Van Allen files . . .

https://digital.lib.uiowa.edu/islan...ect/ui:vanallen

Dave F.
Thank you, Dave; I'm glad that Dr. Van Allen--and/or the official (U.S. Navy or University of Iowa, I'd guess) photographer, was an enthusiastic shutterbug, and didn't skimp on the color film! (I'd previously seen just a few of those pictures, in books and magazine articles from that period, but they were all printed in black-and-white, and I'd simply assumed that they had *all* been shot on B & W film [some were, but the color ones are common]--I'm glad to discover that this wasn't the case!) AND:

I too am very interested in Peter's ETP (Estimated Time of Publication) for the latest edition of "Rockets of the World!" (So many editions of it have appeared over the years--indeed, over the decades, like Willy Ley's 1944 book "Rockets," whose eleventh and final edition came out [under a new title: "Rockets, Missiles, And Men In Space"; there would have been more editions, had Willy not died on June 24, 1969, of a heart attack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_Ley ] in 1968--that its full title, including the subtitle, could be something like: "Rockets of the World: When Will They Stop Making New Ones Needing to be Documented?!" :-) )
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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Old 08-18-2022, 04:59 PM
PeterAlway PeterAlway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Thank you, Dave; I'm glad that Dr. Van Allen--and/or the official (U.S. Navy or University of Iowa, I'd guess) photographer, was an enthusiastic shutterbug, and didn't skimp on the color film! (I'd previously seen just a few of those pictures, in books and magazine articles from that period, but they were all printed in black-and-white, and I'd simply assumed that they had *all* been shot on B & W film [some were, but the color ones are common]--I'm glad to discover that this wasn't the case!) AND:

I too am very interested in Peter's ETP (Estimated Time of Publication) for the latest edition of "Rockets of the World!" (So many editions of it have appeared over the years--indeed, over the decades, like Willy Ley's 1944 book "Rockets," whose eleventh and final edition came out [under a new title: "Rockets, Missiles, And Men In Space"; there would have been more editions, had Willy not died on June 24, 1969, of a heart attack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_Ley ] in 1968--that its full title, including the subtitle, could be something like: "Rockets of the World: When Will They Stop Making New Ones Needing to be Documented?!" :-) )


I can unequivocally state that RotW will come out when it's ready, which should be shortly after it's finished, which should be shortly after I give up on trying to make it better. On the bright side, I've pretty much given up on trying to make it longer. But I have a few things researched that I need to finish drawing. It might be finished when the sun disappears from the mid-day sky.
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Old 08-18-2022, 05:18 PM
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Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlway
I can unequivocally state that RotW will come out when it's ready, which should be shortly after it's finished, which should be shortly after I give up on trying to make it better. On the bright side, I've pretty much given up on trying to make it longer. But I have a few things researched that I need to finish drawing. It might be finished when the sun disappears from the mid-day sky.


Peter,

It would be nice if all of the Supplements were incorporated into the new book.

As for your giving up on trying to make ROTW better, I doubt that would ever happen.

As an afterthought . . . Perhaps, all of your publications could be combined into a single reference book ?

Dave F.
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Old 08-18-2022, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlway
I can unequivocally state that RotW will come out when it's ready, which should be shortly after it's finished, which should be shortly after I give up on trying to make it better. On the bright side, I've pretty much given up on trying to make it longer. But I have a few things researched that I need to finish drawing. It might be finished when the sun disappears from the mid-day sky.
“Quantity has a quality all its own.” Implementing this idea--variously attributed to Napoleon, Lenin, Stalin, etc.--to the greatest extent possible, is how I've always regarded "Rockets of the World" (and how Willy Ley regarded his book "Rockets"). Scale model rocketry (and rocketry history, too) can be divided into two eras--the pre-"Rockets of the World" era and the post-"Rockets of the World" era. (Similarly, the appearance of Willy Ley's book "Rockets" in 1944 also marks such a line of demarcation; before it, there was no single, authoritative text that covered all of the historical, technical, cultural, military, and political aspects and effects of rockets [even propaganda- and mail-carrying rockets and life-saving rockets were covered in detail].) Also:

Willy Ley, in turn, was inspired to write that book--all eleven editions of it--by another "line-demarcating" historical development--the V-2 itself. Before it appeared (as he wrote), no one, except a few specialists, was much impressed by or interested in rockets, even though Goddard's much smaller test vehicles utilized the same principles of propulsion, engine operation and cooling, and guidance. *Everyone* was impressed by the V-2. Ley concluded that even though it was the first space-capable rocket (as it later demonstrated amply in the U.S. and the U.S.S.R.), the V-2's unprecedented size--46 feet from tail fin edges to nose tip--was what impressed everybody; he therefore referred to the V-2 as "the first of the large rockets." As well:

Likewise, his book--and yours--were the first to impress people both inside *and* outside their respective "target audiences," not unlike the V-2 itself ("Rockets of the World" has been, and is, used as an historical reference in scholarly papers--ditto for Ley's "Rockets"). Its 'quantity of coverage' of so many rocket types and their development histories--many of which had never been documented in one place before (between one set of covers, as opposed to in one or more ephemeral, limited-circulation specialist engineering and scientific journals)--is an essential part of its quality, and:

I agree with Dave--it would be great if you collected all of your "Rockets of the World" annual supplements into a single book (it wouldn't be unduly thick or heavy). In fact, you could "steal a play from National Geographic's 'play book'"; they offered--and may still offer, to individuals as well as libraries--bound volumes of their magazine for, say, every five years' or ten years' worth of issues (Aviation Week & Space Technology also does this, at least for libraries). Many of Arthur C. Clarke's non-fiction books (such as "The Challenge of the Spaceship," "Voices From the Sky," "The Report on Planet Three," etc.) are, similarly, collections of his articles and essays, and:

You could--whenever you have enough scale & historical data packs to put together a 'typical-length' "Rockets of the World" supplement booklet (they needn't be annual, of course; as in archaeology, you discover things [or are given things, and/or leads], whenever you do--it doesn't happen according to a fixed schedule)--publish it and market it through Saturn Press, ARA Press, NARTS, Abebooks.com, Amazon, a Saturn Press Ebay store, etc. After five or ten new supplements have "accumulated" (accreted? :-) [Sorry--I couldn't resist 'slipping in' that astronomical term]), you could sell them as bound compilations. (Indian publishers, who have also embraced POD [Print-On-Demand] publishing with gusto, offer such binding and printing services at competitive prices--imagine five or ten "Rockets of the World" supplements, bound together in a gold-lettered-and-accented, two-tone leather binding like *THIS*: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo..._-srp1-_-title1 [Pranava Books offers this leather-bound, high-quality POD reprint of a 1942 U.S. Weather Bureau pibal--pilot balloon--observation and data collection manual, which I ordered a copy of; its quality is superb!].) PLUS:

*Here* (see: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Se...y=10&prevpage=3 ) are several POD-published reprints of classic books, in handsome leather bindings, that are available from several Indian publishing houses, including Pranava Books (I'm only more familiar with them because I have a copy of the 1942 U.S. Weather Bureau pilot balloon observation manual, "Circular O," that they re-print in leather bindings)--all of the Indian publishers' books that are shown appear to be equally well-made.
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http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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Last edited by blackshire : 08-18-2022 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 08-18-2022, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterAlway
It might be finished when the sun disappears from the mid-day sky.
Peter,

Well, at least you have a firm date.

Cheers and blessings,
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